Looking at JESUS! A Response to the Oneness Faith by Jesavee

Looking at JESUS! A Response to the Oneness Faith

A friend of mine just brought up a lovely point concerning Jesus Christ our Lord. Some people believe that Jesus Christ is the literal body of God. Scriptures give clarity that Jesus is the beloved Son of God and not just His "flesh" or "body" without a separate will from the Father as taught by some.

Let me show you something: John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

You might know where I am going with this, and it is good that you do. Some people interpret this as meaning that if they saw Jesus they were literally looking at the Father. Jesus himself clarifies that this is not the case in a most straight forward fashion. Here is what our Lord Messiah Jesus said:

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

If Jesus was the "flesh" or literal "body" of God, then to see him, would be looking directly at God's shape, and to hear him would be literally hearing the voice of the Father. However again Jesus told them that they neither had heard the voice of the Father at anytime, nor seen the shape of the Father in the book of John.
This should be considered in the resulting interpretation of John 14:8-9.

The LORD [YAHWEH] said to Moses that he (Moses) would see his back parts, but his (YAHWEH's) face will not be seen, and we know indeed Moses saw God's back parts because He (GOD) said that he would see them. According to John 5:37 those "back parts" were not in view when Jesus was in view, because they were looking right at Jesus as demonstrated in John but they had not seen the Father's shape. Here is what Moses saw back in the book of Exodus:

Exodus 33:21-23 21And YAHWEH said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Jesus truly is the only begotten Son of God, the Father. He told the woman in the book of John to tell them something that I believe is very "telling":

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

There is a reason why Jesus lifted up his eyes to heaven [John 17.1].

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Even so, that voice, from the one that was pleased with Jesus Christ was from HEAVEN.

Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Our high priest Jesus Christ has passed into the heavens. He is able to save those that come to God by him. He is in the presence of God for us. Our God is not a high priest, but Jesus our Lord Messiah, His Son is one indeed.

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The Second Man by Jesavee

The Second Man

I agree Jesus is our Lord from heaven, meaning that he came from God, and that is great news. It is the reason why he is called the Son of God. His Father is our Father, and his God is our God, because he himself is not the Father. We have only one Father. Jesus is our Lord and savior because God our Savior sent him to be one for us. The Father gave him.

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

John 16:29-33 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. 31Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? 32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. 33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Jesus our Master called them "brethren" in Matthew 23:8-9, and he said one is your Father, which is in heaven. He said this while he was on the earth talking to them.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Father is called the Father for a reason. He is the FATHER.

The verse said this: 1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. There is an extremely important comparison being made in 1 Corinthians 15:47. It should be considered in your interpretation.

The first part of the verse says:"The first man is of the earth, earthy;"

Here are some sure facts about Adam:
1.Adam was the son of God. God created him directly. (Luke 3:38)
2.Adam was created from the dust of the earth, and through him came sin.
3.He is from the earth, earthly.
4.By Adam there came sin.
5.Last but not least Adam was human..

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here are some sure facts about Jesus Christ our Lord:
1.Jesus was/is the Son of God. God created him directly. (Luke 1:35)
2.Jesus was not created from the earth, like Adam was. Jesus was actually begotten, made of a woman.
God was/is his Father (as Luke 1:35 demonstrates beautifully).
Yes God's only BEGOTTEN Son. He is definitely unique.
3.Jesus was human, except now there is a difference. Jesus was OBEDIENT to the Father unlike ADAM who was the human that brought sin. (John 15:10)
4.By Jesus came eternal life.(Romans 5:21)
5.God raised the human Jesus from the dead. God has highly exalted him and given him a name that is above every name, and there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. He is our High Priest that continues always saving those that come to God by him. Jesus is the head of the body, which is the church.

There is a reason why Adam is called the first man and Jesus our Lord Messiah is called the second man, as you may notice in the above comparisons.

The phraseology of "son of God" consistently is used in regards to beings that are not God, the Father in scriptures. Because the Father is not a son, but the Father.‎

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Yes God, He is the God of all. Through Jesus Christ our Lord, He has begotten us again into a lively hope, since through the first man came sin! Now we have the beautiful hope of resurrection of life by the second man. We can be joint-heirs with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord!! That is extremely good news beyond reason!!!

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

God is not heir to anything, because God is the Father, the only true God. God is not Christ, and Christ is not God. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. God was in Christ yes. God was not Christ himself. It does not mean that God himself was contained in Christ the man. The Father of Jesus, and our Father, was in heaven and is in heaven. I know that "God was in Christ" does not mean that Jesus was literally God, his Father, the only true God, because..

Jesus himself told the woman I ascend to my Father, and your Father. "...ascend to my Father"

Jesus himself said his Father is the only true God. Only means unique, and is a strong confirmation that his Father is indeed the only ONE God. Jesus is the Son of the Father, who is the ONE God.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Even so Peter wasn't thinking Jesus was God in Acts 2. He said Jesus was a man approved of God.

There are many traditions in the world today. But is the doctrine you are teaching found to be taught in the scriptures? If you are of the Oneness faith is there a passage that says that Jesus and his Father are the one God, or that Jesus and his Father are one individual/being? If you are of the faith that teaches the Doctrine of the Trinity where is it in the scriptures that states that the three persons of the Trinity are the one true God? Which passage states that God is ONE group of three persons (Trinity)?

If your tradition is a new one? There might be an issue. Paul said this: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Should they have been expecting a new revelation? Where did Paul or anyone else specify this? Paul says: 2 Thessalonians 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3 says: That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the Image of God by Jesavee

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You might be thinking but what about 1 Timothy 3:16? One might say, "It says the word "God" in the KJV so that must mean God himself appeared in the flesh."

OK many people do not like this but God's inspired word is true, and the original manuscripts in their original form are completely accurate. However in 1 Timothy 3:16 according to the context of the scriptures and written word, that this was "translated" into English from, there is an obvious mistranslation.

I will show you this here, but I ask you if you ever have time, because it doesn't hurt to study it, to please research the Greek of this text on your own time in addition to what I show you here. You must confirm things for yourself. Otherwise anyone can tell you basically anything and just say, "Yes just have faith that its right, for it is Biblical" Just because someone says something is Biblical whatever it may be, doesn't mean it is actually is Biblical or true... seek God for clarity on this.

The word "God" is not in the original Greek text. Have you ever wondered why some of the new translations don't have that word in them when you get to this particular verse?

Examples: ...

English Standard Version (©2001) Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

New American Standard Bible (©1995) By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) And this Mystery of Righteousness is truly great, which was revealed in the flesh and was justified in The Spirit; He appeared to Angels and was preached among the Gentiles; He was trusted in the world and he ascended into glory.

Douay-Rheims Bible And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory.

English Revised Version And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory.

Now ask yourself, did God ascend to his God? Did the Father ascend to his Father? Does the Father have a Father? How then is he the Father if he indeed ever had a Father of himself?

Jesus Christ is who ascended and was manifested according to scriptures, and context shows substantially that he, Jesus the Christ, is the Son of the living God, he is not the Father (the Father is the only true God).

John 20:17 tells us that Jesus is the one that was received up into glory. For he indeed was "taken" up. ¹⁷Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

To reiterate: "I (Jesus himself) ascend unto MY Father (the only true God), and your Father (the only true God); and to my God (the only true God), and your God (the only true God).

Yes I repeat Jesus himself was "TAKEN". Please pardon the caps they are only for emphasis, my intent is the most politest, please bear with me.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus was CARRIED into heaven! Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

So again I ask anyone who is reading this these questions in regards to 1 Timothy 3:16.

Who was carried into heaven? Who ascended into glory? Who was manifested so that he might destroy the works of the devil? Who ascended to his God and our God, to his Father and our Father?

Who is this wonderful individual?
It is none other than Jesus the Christ. The Son of the living God. The Just One!

Here is a site that might help you get further information concerning the Greek text of scriptures. Its great for beginners. For I am not so knowledgeable and this one is helpful to me. The scriptures are so valuable that they are worth the study!!!!!!!! (Beyond reason, they are valuable, and should be studied.)

http://biblos.com/1_timothy/3-16.htm

So back to the main point! There is indeed a distinction between Jesus the Christ our Lord, and the one God, who is his Father, that sent him.

Notice the popular verse 1 John 5:20. This is widely popular with the Trinitarian and Oneness perspectives, as they believe it proves directly that the the Son is truly God as well as the Father is truly God. The Trinitarian perspective believes they are two separate persons who are in a group with another that is called a Trinity, the Oneness perspective believes Jesus and his Father are the same individual, with no distinction however. The Oneness perspective believes that Jesus did not have a will of his own, and is literally the body (garment of flesh, a fleshly robe) of God.

OK so here is the verse which is a beautiful one to say the least:

1 John 5:20

²⁰And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Now notice the phrase "This is the true God, and eternal life," comes immediately after the words "Son Jesus Christ". That is what people zoom in on automatically, and practically drop the whole meaning of the verse in their great excitement to believe that the Son of God is God himself, or the 2nd person/individual of a Trinity (a who in a what).

Let's look more closely at this beautiful, thoroughly informative verse. In fact let me add a little context to it, to spice things up!

1 John 5:19-20 ¹⁹And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. ²⁰And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

OK are you familiar with fractions? Fractions can be simplified. So can this verse, if we just "break it down" so it is easier to understand. Verse 19 says that we know that we are of God. OK obviously it is talking about the one God without a doubt here in this particular verse.

Now lets go to verse 20, and it begins, "...And we know that the Son of God is come.." OK there is no mistake who the Son of God is that is come! Who is he? Jesus the Christ our Lord. The one that Peter said was the Son of the living God. So what did the Son of God do? Because the verse says that he, the Son of God, did something.

"...and hath given us an understanding,"

OK. This is majorly important. An actual understanding has been given of something. This means that it is not a mystery. Something that one understands is not a mystery, because if it was a mystery there would not be an understanding about it. Unless of course you understand that you don't understand it, and its a mystery. But that is not what its talking about here. The Son of God is come, and has given (he seriously gave it) us an understanding. Now what kind of benefit was this "understanding" to give us? What did it accomplish???? Would Jesus come and give us an understanding without a purpose? I personally do not think so.

For it says: "...that we may know him that is true." Now that is really nice of the Son of God to come and give us an understanding so that we may know him that is true. The "him" that is true, is actually the one that Jesus is come and given us an understanding about. So who is this "him", is this "him" actually Jesus himself? Did Jesus come to give us an understanding of himself? Please reflect on that question and consider the scriptures.

For it says: "...and we are in him that is true," OK we are getting to the "nitty gritty" so to speak:) We are actually in "him" that is true". There is that "him" again. So again who exactly is this him? Is it really Jesus, the Son of God like most people say? Well lets see if the verse will answer the question for us! I believe the verse is right, even above millions of people multiplied by infinity.

It says, "even in his Son Jesus Christ." Alright I don't know about you, but this automatically makes me think of 2 Timothy 2:15. So we have found out an obvious fact about the "him" that is true. Do you know what that fact is about the "him"?? Well you don't have to give up. I will tell you what it is. The "him" that is true has a SON. Let me show you so you will see it for yourself:

"..we are in HIM that is true, even in HIS Son Jesus Christ."

OK. I want to tell you more about this fact that we learned concerning the "him" that is true. The "him" that is true has a Son, and I'm not talking about just any son. The Son of the "him" that is true is our Lord Jesus Christ. For we are in "him" that is true, even in "his" Son Jesus Christ! Now answer one of my earlier questions, and I'll even add more questions to go along with it.

Is Jesus, the Son of God, the "him" that is true? If your answer is yes, please answer this one too. Does Jesus, the Son of God, have a Son named Jesus who is the Christ? I sincerely hope your answer is at least NO to that one. Now another question I have for you. Who exactly is Jesus the Son OF? Because the answer of this will indeed tell us who the "him" that is true actually is. ALRIGHT I WILL ANSWER IT!!!!

Jesus is the Son of GOD, the FATHER. (The caps are to express my sheer excitement that I wanted you to realize I had while typing this). The Father is the "him" that is true. In fact THIS is the TRUE GOD and ETERNAL LIFE.

I will show you something very wonderful. Jesus knew this also. He knew that his Father was the only true God. I will show you again that this is true:

John 17 ¹These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: ²As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. ³And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

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