Shalom! My name is Adam Pastor

Welcome to ADONI MESSIAH which means
"My Lord Messiah" -
a fitting epithet to who Jesus (or Yeshua) is!

Here, I attempt to present the Apostolic Truths according to the Scriptures, that there is
One GOD, the Father, namely, YAHWEH,
and One Lord, GOD's only begotten Son,
Yeshua the Messiah.

And that one day YAHWEH will send His Son back to Earth to inaugurate the Everlasting Kingdom of GOD



Enjoy!


Monday, August 02, 2010

AN APPEAL TO ONENESS BELIEVERS - part 2

Again, the only real difference between Oneness & Trinitarian doctrines are:

  • Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Son," the second person of the Godhead
  • whilst Oneness believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Father"
  • Both believe that Jesus has a dual nature i.e. a human & divine nature
  • Both believe that Jesus is 100% God & 100% man - the Godman
  • So, in light of the above, both doctrines are indeed erroneous

 
What follows is a synopsis of the posts by the second writer.
The second writer's points will be in green, whilst my responses will be in black:

ONENESS BELIEVER 2

I see the Oneness view fitting the bill perfectly ...
 
MY RESPONSE:
 
1 Timothy 2:3-5 :-

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God
, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;

That is the truth that GOD wants us to come to the knowledge of:
that there is:
ONE GOD, the Father.
Whilst Messiah Jesus, is His human Son; and is the sole mediator between the ONE GOD and mankind.


Sadly, neither trinity nor Oneness fit the bill, because both doctrines assert that Messiah Jesus is also Almighty GOD!
This is something Scripture never does!!

Not only does the apostle Paul agree with his Lord and Master, Jesus
[John 17.3];
but backs up his statement
in 1 Timothy 2.5, with 1 Cor. 8.4,6.

If Oneness were true, what Paul would have said in 1 Cor 8.6 is
"But to us there is but one God, Jesus!"

But Paul says no such thing because he clearly differentiates GOD and Jesus just as he had done throughout the NT.
The apostle Paul (in alignment with Jesus) identifies the ONE GOD as
the Father.
Then Paul goes on to identify
the one Lord as Jesus the Messiah.

Look again at
Acts 2:34-36:

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself,
The LORD [YAHWEH] said unto my Lord,
Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.

Almighty GOD, the Father, has made the man Jesus who was crucified, both Lord & Christ;
hence "that same Jesus" is now known as "our Lord Jesus Christ"


That honor goes to nobody else. GOD alone has made solely this man, "Lord."
In fulfilment of Psalm 110.1,
YAHWEH said unto my lord.

Therefore, Philippians 2:11: And that every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.


Therefore, Jesus the Messiah is the one Lord in fulfilment of Psalm 110.1.
Hence, Paul when speaking of things which are "one" states:

Ephesians 4:5-6: One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So, the ONE GOD is the Father.
Whilst, Jesus, His Son,
is the Lord Messiah.
[Col 3.24, Luke 2.11]
 
ONENESS BELIEVER:
 
(1 Cor 8:4) ... there is none other God but one.

(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;

and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Yes you are right that there is One God, the Father of whom and are all things and one Lord, Jesus Christ by whom are all things and we by him. Scriptures teach that God made all things through Christ.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Notice the similarity of the usage of 'by whom’ in 1 Corin 8:6 & Heb 1:2. So here it is clear that God created the worlds through Christ His Son who is His image and exact representation. But does this mean that the man Christ Jesus the Son existed as a Son of man or Son of God before he came to earth. No, what the scriptures mean is that everything in this universe was created in perspective or to make way for the Man Christ Jesus who is the image of God, the firstborn over every creation.

At the same time scripture also attributes that all things were made by Him and for Him.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Notice that in the above passage it says that 'by him were all things created' and it also says that 'all things were created by him' so the Deity is One and we cannot discount Christ from the Deity.

 
MY RESPONSE:
 

Back to 1 Cor. 8.6:

GOD is the Creator & source of all things hence of whom are all things.
Whilst the Lord Messiah, His Son, is the reason and the very purpose of all things, seeing that they are his inheritance;
thus, by, or rather, through whom are all things.

Heb 1.2 is not about the Genesis creation; rather it is about the ages which GOD has made in view of His Son;
predominantly the ages to come.
(Cp. Heb 2.5)
The word "worlds" in Heb 1.2 is the Greek word for ages/aeons.

So neither 1 Cor 8.6 nor Heb 1.2 are saying that all things were made BY Jesus. NO!
Rather, the sole Creator, the Father, created all things FOR His (then future) Son, seeing that His Son will be the heir of all things.
[Heb 1.2, Psa 2.8, etc]

Likewise, Col 1.16 has nothing to do with the Genesis creation. The context is actually about the future kingdom. [Col 1.13]
The all things created are thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: - all in the context of
the future kingdom i.e. the new creation to come.
(Note: no mention of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein as one would expect, if the context was the Genesis creation)


Incidentally, the first word "by" in
Col 1.16 is actually the Greek word "EN" which means "in".
The second word "by" is actually the Greek word "DIA" which means "through".
So Col 1.16 is not actually saying that anything was created "BY" Jesus, at all!

The verse actually says, e.g. NRSV:
for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers-- all things have been created through him and for him.
Also ASV.

See also COLOSSIANS 1:15-20 - PREEXISTENCE OR PREEMINENCE?

ONENESS BELIEVER:

Once we understand the plan of God can we understand why the man Christ Jesus was subject to God Almighty?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The passage is a quote from Psalms 8

I would like to elaborate the passage more widely here as the passage says that Jesus was made little lower than the angels ...
Oneness fits the bill here perfectly as Jesus was made lower than Elohiym for the sake of suffering. There are more passages which teach this as we read on in Hebrews

...
We also cannot deny the fact that when in the flesh He was subject to God and became mortal man and hence we have scriptures showing His subjection to God the Father completely

Php 2:6-8

Here we have scripture confirming that being in the form of God, he was equal to God (This was before He came to earth as a man)

 
MY RESPONSE:
 
BTW, Psalm 8 is about mankind
[verse 4] which were made little lower than the angels [verse 5].
Beginning with Adam, GOD made man to have dominion over the works of His hands.
Jesus, the last Adam, therefore was a man
[Acts 2.22, John 8.40, 1 Tim 2.5];
which GOD Almighty is not!
[Num 23.19, Job 9.32]

Seeing therefore that Jesus is a man and not GOD, Jesus will forever be subject to the ONE GOD, his Father.
On the subject of complete subjection:
(1 Cor 15:27-28) For he [GOD] hath put all things under his [the Son's] feet. But when he [GOD] saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted [GOD is not included], which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [GOD the Father] that put all things under him,
that God may be all in all.

The ONE GOD is excepted i.e. GOD is not included, GOD is exempt, which did put all things under Jesus the Son.
Again, a clear distinction between the ONE GOD and His subjected Son.
 
You stated concerning Phil 2.6-8,
"Here we have scripture confirming that being in the form of God, he was equal to God (This was before He came to earth as a man)"

Huh!! If Jesus existed as a being who was equal to GOD before he came to earth; that would be two co-equal almighty beings!!
That's trinitarianism, or at least, binitarianism. I thought you were Oneness!?

For a better exposition of Phil 2.6-8, please see: Adam Christology, Pre-existence & The Philippian Hymn

ONENESS BELIEVER:
 
It is important that we understand the mystery of godliness. The person was One and that is God manifesting in the flesh and we know Him as Lord Jesus Christ and Thomas was not ashamed to call him 'My Lord and My God' as we cannot know God beyond Christ.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

He is not a Godman as Trinitarians say but God manifested in the flesh.

When we read in Revelation Chapter 1 the one that spoke with John was Christ who claimed He was the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last and no man can claim this claim as Almighty God apart from Christ.

Re 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: ...

Re 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; , and, behold I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

The Sad fact is that those who do not believe that Jesus is He as he said "I am He" will die in his sins.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

You can't discount such claims, can you?

De 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
 
MY RESPONSE:
 

Thomas, called Jesus,
"My Lord and My God!" Amen.
For an explanation please see, Jesus is God
 
As for 1 Tim. 3.16, sadly, this verse is not as clear cut as one would first believe. In fact, Jesus is not in Scripture portrayed as a Godman at all!!
Please see Concerning 1 Tim 3.16

Now, GOD alone has immortality.
[1 Tim 6.16]
That means He cannot die!
GOD CANNOT DIE!!


So Rev 1.11,17-18 is indeed speaking of Jesus as the first and the last; but obviously, in a difficult context, to when this title is used in regards to GOD Almighty. [Isa 44.6, 48.12]
(Remember, GOD Almighty cannot die;
whilst Jesus is: he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore.)
 
Also throughout the Bible, there is the Hebrew concept of "Agency"- whereby the sent acts as the agent of the sender - and in doing so, the sent is treated as if the sent is actually the sender.
That is, although the two are distinct, the sent agent is treated as if he is identical to the sender. - For more info on this concept please see Divine Agency in the Scriptures.
 
The above link will show many examples of this concept. Therefore, in similar fashion, when Jesus says, "I am the first and the last", he does not mean that he is actually Almighty GOD. Instead,
Jesus means that he is the agent of Almighty GOD - he is speaking for the immortal GOD.
 
Concerning John 8.24, read the very next verse.

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them,
Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

Two things:

1) If Jesus was claiming to be Almighty GOD in verse 24, as you assert. Why would the people then ask in the very next verse, "Who are you?"
It ought to be obvious, if Jesus apparently just claimed to be GOD!!

2) Now note Jesus' response in verse 25.
My question: Where did Jesus anywhere in the Gospels, from the beginning of his ministry right up to John 8.25, ever claim to be GOD Almighty? WHERE??
Remember, he said, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

Rather, Jesus claimed to be GOD's Son, the light of the world, the one promised to be sent by GOD, the one spoken of by Moses, etc.
And unless someone believes Jesus is, who he claimed to be, that is, the Messiah; such a one will die in their sins.

So, Jesus never ever claimed to be Almighty GOD from the beginning!!
 

ONENESS BELIEVER:
 
Moreover we have this testimony that there was a need for the 'testator' to die. It doesn't make sense that God creates a man to die for us. This is no love at all but the love of God is manifested in that He took the form of man and humbled Himself to bring many sons to glory. This is the clear teaching of the scriptures.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
 
 
MY RESPONSE:
 

Concerning Heb 9.16-17 (testament/covenant - same Greek word):

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 7:21  (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord [GOD ALMIGHTY] sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.


Hebrews 9:11-24:

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


Therefore, the testator did indeed die? Who then is the testator?
The man Jesus, the sole mediator of the new covenant/testament; the one whom the living GOD appointed forever an high priest.

(A priest cannot be identical to the One he ministers to!
High Priests are taken from among men and minister the things pertaining to God
- Heb 2.17, 5.1.
Jesus is called of GOD to be an High Priest forever!
[Heb 5.1,5,10]
He cannot therefore himself be the living GOD).

After GOD Almighty raised the dead Jesus, from the dead, what happened next?
Jesus entered into Heaven itself, into the very presence of the ONE GOD Himself.

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

So Jesus is the Son of GOD who is now in the presence of GOD.
It is that simple.

 

ONENESS BELIEVER:

 
Paul identified Christ as 'that Spirit'. You have to deny all these scriptures to make a straw man argument showing Christ as a created being rather than God manifesting in flesh.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

MY RESPONSE:

Concerning 2 Cor 3.14, Christ as 'that Spirit'. Amen!
The apostle Paul is contrasting Moses, who had a veil upon his face; with Christ, in whom the veil, which blinds people today, can be done away. Amen!!
So if one turns to the Lord Jesus, the veil shall be taken away. Amen!
Thus, ...
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


So,  ...

Jesus of Nazareth, is the virginally begotten, sinless, human,
son of the ONE GOD,
who began his existence in the womb of his mother [Luke 1.35];
He grew in the grace & the wisdom of the ONE GOD. [Luke 2.40]
He died for our sins. After three days, GOD Almighty, the ONE GOD, raised him from the dead, immortalized & highly exalted him,
made him 'Lord', and set him at His own right hand.
Therefore, Jesus is a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. [Heb 6.20, 8.1]
Jesus is now in Heaven itself, in the very presence of the ONE GOD Himself.

It is that simple!
ONE GOD, the Father.
The man, the Lord Jesus Christ,
is His Son, i.e.
the Son of the Father.
[2 John 3]

This scriptural definition fits the bill perfectly!

Jesus is a glorified man at the right hand of the ONE GOD;
the day will come when Almighty GOD will send Jesus back to earth, to establish the Kingdom at his Coming.
[Acts 3.19-20]

Hence the Apostle Paul's words:

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and
how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,
even Jesus
, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the living and true GOD! Amen!