If you have explored Trinitarian doctrine to any degree, you will have surely come across the "Jesus is God" or "Jesus is YAHWEH" attribute association charts. These charts are usually arranged to compare Jesus and Yahweh God by showing they share several things in common. These charts are nothing but deceptive fallacies. A person can share numerous things in common with another person and it will not make them that person by identity.
Perhaps you have heard of the phrase, "guilt by association" which is known to be a common fallacy. The Trinitarian is trying to claim that since Jesus shares many things in common with God then he is God by identity. It is pitifully ridiculous. The following chart is a similar layout to the ones Trinitarians use to compare Jesus and Yahweh. It is created with the exact same reasoning process used by Trinitarians to create their charts and demonstrates the complete foolishness of such "reasoning."
Peter is the Messiah ("Anointed One") Description Jesus Peter Son of God Luke 1:35; Matt 3:16-17 Matt 5:45; Rom 8:14;
Gal 3:26Begotten of God Jn 3:16 1 Jn 5:1; Matt 16:17 Shepherd Matt 2:6; 26:31; Jn 10:11; Heb 13:20;
1 Peter 2:25; 5:4Jn 21:16; Acts 20:28;
1 Peter 5:2Light of the world John 8:12 Matthew 5:14 Apostle Hebrews 3:1 Matthew 10:2 Priest Hebrews 7:3, 17, 24 1 Peter 2:5,9; Rev 1:6; 5:10 King Matthew 2:2; 27:37;
Luke 1:33-35Rev 1:6; 5:10 Authority to forgive sins Matthew 9:2,8 John 20:21-23 Healed the lame Matthew 9:1-8 Acts 3:6-7 Raised the dead John 11:43-44 Acts 9:37-41 Walked on water Matthew 14:25 Matthew 14:29 Bestowed the Spirit John 20:22 Acts 8:14-18 Crucified
for the SheepMatthew 27; Luke 23; John 19 John 21:18-19
Early church testimonyAnointed1 Luke 4:18; Acts 10:38 2 Cor 1:21; 1 John 2:20, 27 Conclusion: Both Peter and Jesus are the Messiah!!! A person can theoretically share absolutely everything in common with another person and it will still not make you that person. Even if Peter shared 100% of Jesus' attributes, Peter would not be Jesus. This is because there is one thing they cannot share in common: identity. Peter is one person and Jesus is another person. Peter is one identity, Christ is another identity, and the one thing they can never have in common is their personal identities. No matter how big you make the chart above, and no matter how many things you show Peter has in common with the Messiah, Peter will simply never be the Messiah.
The same is true with the Son of God and his Father who is God. In fact, Jesus does not share several things with the Father in addition to not sharing the Father's identity. This Trinitarian ploy is nothing but a pitiful fallacy. On one hand they want to claim Jesus and the Father are two different identities but on the other hand they wish to claim that both of them share one common identity as the one we know as "God."
What Trinitarians try to do is identity Jesus as God when God already is identified as the person of the Father by showing he shares things in common with the Father. It is just as ridiculous as trying to identify Peter as the Christ as we have shown above. ... Not only so, much of the information presented in these charts is simply false information anyway. For example, they will try to claim Jesus is "omniscient" and avoid the fact that Jesus increased in wisdom and does not know "the day nor hour." Other falsehoods in these charts are based on their own misinterpretations. The truth is that even IF these charts were not presenting falsehoods within them, the whole idea itself is a farce. Our own chart above demonstrates that quite clearly. No matter how many things you show one person has in common with another person, it will never amount to both of them having the same identity.
Notes:
1. The word Messiah, or maschiach, is Hebrew for "Anointed One." The Greek word is chrisma which is a cognate of the word "Christ."
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
The Attribute Association Farce by K.N. Stovra
Friday, January 02, 2009
Confusing the Lord God and the Lord Messiah, Confusing the Two Lords by Anthony Buzzard
Confusing the Lord God
and the Lord
Messiah
(Written in 1994 by Anthony Buzzard)
At a time when Christological speculation is bursting the bounds of propriety and common sense (Barbara Thiering now declares that Jesus was married, had several children and was divorced [1]), there is a need to restate the facts about what expectation the Hebrew Bible presents in regard to the identity of the promised Savior. A longstanding inaccuracy has plagued the discussion about who Christ is and needs to be cleared up.
A small booklet, entitled The Deity of Jesus Christ, by Professor V.A. Spence Little, makes a fundamental point about the identity of Jesus:
The striking passage in the opening verse of Psalm 110, "The Lord (Jehovah) saith unto My Lord (Adonai)," is confirmed as a designation of Christ by the Lord himself, when he said to a company of Pharisees, "David therefore calleth him Lord," etc., as recorded in Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, and Luke 20:42. The nature of the statements attributed to the Lord Jehovah, concerning a certain "Lord" or "My Lord," are of sufficient importance in our argument to entitle this passage to further attention.
The contents of the first verse of this Psalm receive much prominence in various places in the New Testament. Beside their use by the Lord in reference to Himself, as referred to above, St. Peter cites this verse in his Pentecostal Sermon (Acts 2:34), upon which he makes the comment that "God made that same Jesus both Lord (Kurios, the Old Testament Septuagint title for Jehovah) and Messiah."
Again the epistle to the Hebrews (1:13) cites this passage and applies it to Christ, whom this writer has just before addressed as "God." And he again refers to the statement in the Psalm, "The Lord said unto My Lord, sit Thou on My right hand," in the comment, "This Man (Jesus) sat down on the right hand of God" (10:12), referring to the session of the ascended Lord. . . .
Whoever this Personage is who is described by so august titles and offices, as the Rod of Jehovah’s strength, and the deliverer come out of Zion, which St. Paul refers to in Romans (11:26), the Redeemer of Israel and Judge of the Gentile nations in preparation for the inauguration of God’s Kingdom on earth as referred to in the Revelation (19:11-16), at least this inference must be accepted that this Lord Adonai, both by nature and office, is acknowledged both in Psalm and in many New Testament interpretations thereof as a Divine Personage and on equality with Eternal Deity (e.g. Matt. 22:44; Acts 2:34; Eph. 1:20; Col. 3:1).
When Kurios of the Septuagint is applied to Christ, it is specially and directly explained in the Old Testament, as in Psalm 110:1, "The Lord (Jehovah) saith unto My Lord (Adonai), sit Thou at My right hand." These words were quoted by the Lord with comments, by which He definitely implied that this divine Name, Adonai, indicated Himself (Matt. 22:43-45; Mark 12:36, 37). [2]
There is no doubt about the supreme importance of Psalm 110:1 for New Testament Christology. Not only does Jesus declare himself to be the second Lord mentioned in the divine utterance (Matt. 22:43-45), but Peter confirms that Jesus has received at his ascension the office of Lord as defined by Psalm 110:1 (Acts 2:23-34). This is obviously Christological truth on the highest authority. The question then is, what is meant by "Lord"?
It is amazing that commentators, for
example the one cited above, misstated the facts about the language used
to describe the Messiah. A whole tradition
confidently asserts that Psalm 110:1 contained the word
Adonai, the equivalent of Yahweh, as the proper
title for the Messiah. The Hebrew word in question,
however, is not Adonai
at all, but
Adoni, "my lord." And Adoni, in its more than 150 occurrences in the Hebrew Bible [3], never once
refers to the Deity, but always to human (or occasionally angelic) superiors
other than God Himself.
Adoni is the favorite title for the king of Israel and is thus entirely
appropriate as the Messianic address par excellence.
The Messiah
therefore is a man, not Deity.
By an extraordinary confusion, perpetuated by the misreading of Adonai for Adoni, Jesus has been declared the Lord God rather than the Lord Messiah. It is the latter title which he receives from the angels who announced to the shepherds that "today in the city of David there is born for you a savior who is the Lord Messiah" (Luke 2:11). When Jesus is called "Lord" the New Testament does not mean that he is Jehovah but a Lord distinct from the One Lord God. He is the Lord Christ or, more fully, "the Lord Jesus Christ." There are indeed two lords, but the second is not Deity but the Son of God and Messiah. Jesus’ and Peter’s witnesses to Psalm 110:1 as the key to Jesus’ Lordship need urgent confirmation throughout the church which has long traded on a misunderstanding fostered by the confusion of two similar Hebrew words with vastly different meanings. The rediscovery of Psalm 110:1 as the basis of New Testament monotheism and Christology will help to put to an end centuries of metaphysical speculation which could not have occurred if the Hebrew Bible had been allowed a controlling hand in Christological definition.
Confusing the Two Lords
(Written in 1992 by Anthony Buzzard)
In the editorial of the Winter, 1992, issue of this journal [4] we urged a reconsideration of traditional Christology in the light of the all-important oracle provided by Psalm 110:1. This verse is precious to New Testament writers, who quote it or allude to it more than any other text of the Hebrew Scriptures. The importance of Psalm 110:1 lies in its simple description of two divine Persons, Yahweh and David’s "Lord," the latter designated as the one destined to remain at the Father’s right hand until he comes as conquering Messiah to subdue his enemies. The scheme thus revealed is the framework of the entire New Testament outlook on the present session of Jesus in heaven and his expected return to establish the Messianic Kingdom of prophecy in a renewed earth.
Yahweh and David’s "Lord" are clearly two persons, in the modern psychological sense of that term. There is no possible route from the psalm to the complex definition of "person" which created in Nicene theology so many intractable problems. The Messianic Christology of Psalm 110:1 places the Messiah in a subordinate, yet highly exalted position relative to Yahweh who remains a distinct person in a class of His own. There is no question of compromising the unrestricted monotheism of the Hebrew Bible. The one God of Israel commands the Messiah to wait until the time comes for His final vindication. As Yahweh’s agent the Messiah is David’s adon or lord. The form of the word as it appears in the Hebrew of Psalm 110:1 is adoni ("my Lord"). It is a striking fact that the Lord God is nowhere addressed as adoni. This title is reserved for kings, prophets, human superiors in general, and angels.
Under the strain of having to ascribe coequality and coeternity to the Messiah, some commentators have shown a curious tendency to declare, against the facts of the Hebrew text, that in Psalm 110:1 Yahweh speaks to adonai. The latter title is, of course, an alternative for the divine name and is used exclusively of Yahweh. Now if David’s oracle had indeed stated that Yahweh spoke to adonai, there would be a basis for the development of belief in a godhead of more than one person. The text as it stands, however, provides no support for the deity of the Messiah in a Trinitarian sense. Examples of an unconscious reading of Trinitarian theology into Psalm 110:1 are found in commentators of the present and the last centuries.
A.R. Fausset, writing in 1866, comments on Psalm 110:1, "Jehovah said to Adonai or ‘my Lord’. . . Jehovah, in verse one represents God the Father, and Adonai, God the Son." [5] But this is to create a potential Trinitarianism which is not in the text, since the Messiah is called adoni not adonai. Reginald Fuller states that "in the Hebrew [of Psalm 110:1] the first ‘Lord’ is the tetragrammaton, the second [the king] is adhonai." [6] Fuller goes on to say that adonai may be used of an earthly ruler. But examples are not cited. In a subsequent chapter he reads the Hebrew correctly and says that the second "lord" of our text is (1) adhoni. [7] The confusion of adonai with adoni is compounded when Fuller questions whether the New Testament church would have conceded to Jesus a title which was reserved for deity. [8] But adoni was not a title for deity. It referred to the king, and supremely to the Messiah, as God’s legal agent.
V.A. Spence Little misreads the Hebrew of Psalm 110:1 explaining the verse: "The Lord [Jehovah] saith unto My Lord (Adonai), Sit thou at My right hand." He argues for the deity of the Messiah when he states that Jesus "definitely implied that this divine Name, Adonai, indicated Himself (Matt. 22:43-45)." [9] The argument is based, however, on an inaccurate reporting of the Hebrew text.
John Stott defends Chalcedonian Christology when he maintains that because early Christians addressed Jesus as kurios they meant that he was God, since kurios was the LXX translation of the divine name. [10] However, this is to overlook the fact that kurios was also the translation of Psalm 110:1’s adoni which was not a title for deity. Kurios, as used of Jesus, could most appropriately designate the Lord Messiah as distinct from the Lord God (see Luke 2:11; Rom. 16:18; Col. 3:24).
The celebrated Smith’s
Dictionary of the Bible shows how
pervasive is this fundamental confusion of the two Lords. The dictionary makes
the claim that Peter’s use of the title "Lord" for Jesus in Acts 2:36
establishes his deity:
"After the Ascension the Apostles labored to bring
the Jew to the knowledge that Jesus was not only the Christ, but was also a
Divine person, even the Lord Jehovah." Psalm 110:1 is then quoted as proof of
this amazing assertion: "St. Peter, after the outpouring of the Holy
Ghost on the Day of Pentecost by Christ, says, ‘Therefore let all the house of
Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have
crucified, both Lord [kurion, Jehovah] and Christ.’ " [11]
It is only in a footnote that a later editor corrects the obvious flaw in the argument: "In ascribing to St. Peter the remarkable proposition that ‘God hath made Jesus Jehovah,’ the writer of this article appears to have overlooked the fact that kurion (‘Lord’) in Acts 2:36 refers to to kurio mou (‘my Lord’) in verse 34, quoted from Psalm 110:1, where the Hebrew correspondent is not Jehovah but adon, the common word for ‘lord’ or ‘master.’ " [12]
The recovery of the Old Testament as the basis of Apostolic Christianity will put an end to the age-old desire of commentators to find in the text of Scripture cherished beliefs dating from the post-biblical Councils. The misreading of Psalm 110:1 as support for the deity of Jesus is the symptom of a widespread confusion over the identity of the two Lords.
It is a mistake to claim that Jesus is Jehovah when in fact he is the Messiah appointed to that supreme office by Jehovah. The Smith’s Bible Dictionary footnote deserves to become a headline summoning us to belief in Jesus as the Messiah, not God.
Anthony Buzzard
[1] N.T. Wright, Who Was Jesus? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1993, 19.
[2] London: The Covenant Publishing Co., Ltd., 1956, 14, 15, 58.
[3] Adoni occurs 195 times in the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament).
[4] A Journal from The Radical Reformation. Available from the Church of God General Conference
[5] A Commentary, Critical, Experimental, and Practical, by R. Jamieson, A.R. Fausset and D. Brown, Philadelphia: J.B. Lippincott, 1866, 346, 347.
[6] The Foundations of New Testament Christology, New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1965, 68.
[7] Ibid., 185.
[8] Ibid., 198.
[9] The Deity of Jesus Christ, London: The Covenant Publishing Co. Ltd., 1956, 58.
[10] The Authentic Jesus, revised ed., Marshall Pickering, 1992, 27.
[11] Reprinted by Baker Book House, 1971, 3090.
[12] Ibid.
The above two articles were taken from
Volume 3, Issue 3 (Spring 1994) Editorial
and
Friday, December 12, 2008
The Trinity & Star Trek Next Generation!
Although I do not agree with the author's prophetic views and his numerous satirical, religious notions; however, his illustration on the futility of the doctrine of the trinity is quite apt.
Here it is:
"There was a fantastic episode of Star Trek Next Generation (Season 6, Episode 11, Chain of command II), where Captain Jean Luc Picard was captured by the Cardassians and tortured for information by Gul Madred.
The procedure that the Cardassians employed was very simple.
They shone 4 lights at him and asked him: How many lights do you see? He said: Four. Gul Madred falsely represented that there were 5. The aliens would then give him pain and torture every time Picard said that there were 4 lights, and then ask him the question again.
To cut a long story short he never broke and continued to represent throughout the entire process that there were precisely four lights.
When he was rescued by his ship mates they all congratulated him on his unbreakable will power and strength and told him what a great captain he was, and what a wonderful example to the crew he had set. But Jean Luc confided to one of the crew just how much he desperately wanted to convince himself that there were 5 lamps. He said that he was minutes away from cracking and agreeing that 4 was 5. Of course once he agrees to that, he has lost his objectivity and it is game over. You can get anything you want from him.
The plot is an adaption of George Orwell's 1984 where O'Brien tortures Winston by holding up 4 fingers in front of his face and then insisting that there are 5.
The Trinity Doctrine that began with the Catholic church and spread to many other churches is just that process. The trinity is the abolition of the number 3. The victim is asked to accept that 1 is 3 and 3 is 1."
Saturday, November 01, 2008
My response to "Is Jesus God?"
(This blog was removed shortly after I responded.)
The gentleman presented a trinitarian point of view in an attempt to present Jesus as Almighty GOD. My responses are in this color.
There are many interesting paradoxes in the Christian faith. For instance, does anyone REALLY know how what many refer to as the Trinity works? ... Can one God be all three? ... Today however, my own inquiry is narrowed to just trying to determine through scripture, if Jesus is God.
Let us begin our search for an answer to this question with an opening statement found in the book of John:
"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" John 14:7-9
... In Jesus' time, both claims and accusations had to be fortified with 2-3 witnesses. This is not unlike things are today. Think of any court case you are aware of and it will most likely call to mind witnesses. Scripturally, the need is borne out in Deut 17:6 and Matt 18:16.
Christ uses this law to establish his own identity. " If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true. There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true. You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish — the very works that I do — testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me..."And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form." John 5:31-33, 36,37
One is able to distill from this passage that based on the testimony of witnesses, it can be proved that Jesus is God. These are no idle witnesses to be sure. According to the Scripture, Christ's witnesses include God the Father, John the Baptist (which we will extend to "man"), Jesus' own miraculous works and that of His own witness about himself.
Is Jesus [Almighty] God?
NO!!
In Jesus' time, as you put it; to GOD's people Israel, there was solely ONE GOD who was definitely NOT in any description, three!
Jesus affirmed this creed in Mark 12:28ff.
Obviously then, neither Jesus nor the scribe were trinitarian! And it ought to be equally obvious that the scribe did not believe that the man before him was actually Almighty GOD! And remember, Jesus commended the scribe. [v. 34]
Did the witness John the Baptist testify that Jesus was indeed Almighty GOD? NO!
Rather, (John 1:34) And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
(Remember, John was a Jew (like Jesus). Jews are monotheists believing in ONE GOD as ONE Person!)
What of the witness of GOD Himself?
GOD Almighty testified that Jesus was indeed His Son. GOD said nothing about His Son being also Almighty GOD!?!
Therefore, on this subject, I recommend this video:
This question has the same answer as to whether the one God be all three?
This ONE GOD associated Himself with the verses in Deut 6:4ff, known as the Shema.
This was the creed of Israel; also, this was and is the creed of Jesus the Messiah. Their GOD is ONE Being, ONE Person, ONE Entity!
(This fact hasn't changed)
Note the scribe's response:
(Mark 12:32) And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
So, John testified that Jesus was the Son of the ONE GOD.
(Mat 17:5) While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
GOD said "hear ye him." In other words, listen to His Son.
Did Jesus, GOD's Son, ever testify that he was GOD?
NEVER, NO NOT ONCE!
The Human Jesus
Isa 9.6
Jesus is indeed el gibbor. But do you know what that means?
It is not in actuality a title of deity. It means a mighty warrior and is used in ref. to a group of them i.e. plural in Ezek 32.21.
It is indeed a fitting title for our Lord since when he returns he will not be
"gentle Jesus meek & mild"; but rather, he will be the conquering king and sovereign, who will be enthroned on the throne of David
[Isa 9.7, Luke 1.32-33] as promised by GOD his Father.
For more info, on Isa 9.6, please see Concerning Isaiah 9:6
The aforementioned video also deals with Isa 9.6.
There is also another witness, that of scripture. Let us examine what thus saith the Lord through His Divine word.
The Witness of God
Isa 9:6-Jesus is called God in prophecy delivered by God through Isaiah.
Heb 1:8-9
Yes, Jesus is called 'God' in verse 8.
Does that however, make him, Almighty GOD?
Now we both know the answer to that one!
So seeing that Jesus the Messiah is both GOD's sanctified, ordained Judge [John 10.36, 5.22, Acts 17.31, etc]; Remember Heb 1.8-9 is taken from Psa 45.6-7 which was used in regards to the human kings of Israel. The king was called elohim.
(Heb 1:9) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The one addressed as God/elohim/theos (in Heb 1.8, Psa 45.6)
has a God/elohim/theos ABOVE him!! [Heb 1.9, Psa 45.7]
Heb 1:9 ought to act as a safeguard against any misunderstanding.
John 20.17 [I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and John's intent for writing his gospel:
John 20.31 [But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God];
ought to have safeguarded any misunderstanding of Thomas's messianic declaration of the resurrected Jesus.
Both Heb 1.8-9 & John 20.28 are addressed in the video.
Heb 1:8-9-Note how God is quoted as referring to Jesus as God.
Well I ask you?
Did not Almighty GOD specifically call Moses God in Exo 7.1??
In fact, He made him so.
(Exo 7:1) And YAHWEH said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (See also Exo 4.16)
(The same Hebrew word elohim as used in
Psa 45.6 (quoted in Heb 1.8) is referred to!)
So, does this make Moses, Almighty GOD?
And did you know that the judges of Israel who judged on GOD's behalf, were also called god/elohim/theos??
See Exo 21.6, 22.8,9,28; Psa 82.6 (used by Jesus in this regard)
and the Prophet like unto Moses [Deut 18.15,18-19];
one can see in what sense Jesus Christ is indeed rightly called God!
In a representational, judicial, royal, Messianic sense!
Hence John 20.28!
However, in both the OT & NT refs. to this passage, there is indeed a clear safeguard that should shield all readers from any misunderstanding.
The very fact that he has a God above him, should inform the reader that he is not GOD Almighty; but rather, he is God in the sense that Moses & the judges were so called, by GOD Almighty. In fact, GOD Almighty anointed Jesus of Nazareth above all these fellows; hence he is the Messiah;
therefore, Jesus Christ is supreme over them all however he is under & second to his GOD, the ONE GOD, the Father.
(cp. 1 Cor 15.27-28)
Even as John 20:28 being placed between
Jesus' words:
and to my God, and your God.]
The Witness of Men
John 1:1-3, 14-This is the best known scriptural proof of Jesus’ deity.
John 20:25-28-Thomas understood him to be God.
John 1:1-3, 14
Jesus is not mentioned in John 1:1-3 at all. Verse 14 therefore informs us that Jesus is GOD's word made flesh.
"It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John's Gospel to read it as if it said: 'In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God and the Son was God' (John 1:1).
The video goes into more detail concerning these verses.
John 20:25-28 is also addressed in the video.
Jesus of Nazareth is therefore, what the word of GOD became.
There is nothing in these verses that speaks of Jesus' deity
To quote Colin Brown:
What has happened here is the substitution of Son for Word (Greek logos), and thereby the Son is made a member of the Godhead which existed from the beginning."
Col 1:15-18-Paul knew him to be God.
Col 1:15-18
Paul never ever refers to Jesus as GOD Almighty.
These verses are about the new creation, the future kingdom (v. 13). The all things are thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
GOD created all these things for and with His Son in view.
See also COLOSSIANS 1:15-20 - PREEXISTENCE OR PREEMINENCE?
Acts 20:28-Paul knew him to be God, referring to His own blood.
Acts 20:28
There are translational issues with this verse. The rendering "God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" is suspect.
Besides, Paul never knew Jesus to be GOD! These are Paul's words:
(1 Cor 8:4) ... that there is none other God but one.
(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, ...
Paul followed the doctrine of his Lord & Master, Jesus; in referring to the Father as the only true GOD. John 17.3
Again, see the video in regards to this issue.
The Witness of Works
John 14:10-11-There is nothing like the demonstration of a statement to prove the statement.Christ’s resume: sight to the blind, healed the sick, made the lame walk, cleanliness to leprous, fed the hungry, raised up the humble, brought down the haughty, brought life to the dead and gave salvation to us. No mere man could do these things. Only through the power of Almighty God. ...
John 14:10-11
What does this verse actually say?
You see? The Son can do and did do NOTHING of himself!! The Father did the works
(Acts 2:22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
GOD performed the works through His Son.
Think about it. How can Almighty GOD do nothing of himself?
(John 14:10-11) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
His Son did nothing of himself! [John 5.19]
Yet another indicator that Jesus is NOT Almighty GOD!
The Witness of Christ
Rev 1:7-8-He testifies of Himself as the Almighty.
Rev 1:7-8
Besides in Rev 1.18 Jesus clearly testified:
GOD Almighty alone has immortality innately. [1 Tim 6.16]
Don't be duped by red letter bibles. Verse 8 are not the words of Jesus.
Reference to Jesus ends with the Amen in verse 7.
Verse 8 are the words of the LORD GOD e.g.
ASV: I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
NASB: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
(Rev 1:18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; ...
Immortality means "One Cannot Die"
GOD ALMIGHTY CANNOT DIE!!
However, Jesus, GOD's Son, died for our sins.
(And of course, GOD Almighty raised him from the dead)
Hence, the Lord Jesus, is NOT Almighty GOD!
Makarios: Jesus never claimed to be God???
Makarios: Jesus never claimed to be God???
Greetings Makarios
You stated:
"As far as I can see, there can be only two reasons for making a statement like, “Jesus never claimed to be God.”
First, the writer suffers from profound ignorance regarding the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
Second, the writer is a liar.
There may be other reasons that I’m not aware of but the conclusion is the same, the writer is wrong at every level."
Makarios, it appears that you're not aware of the myriad of reasons why someone reading the Bible would say that
“Jesus never claimed to be God.”
Hmmm! Where does one begin?
The easiest one being, that there isn't any verse in Scripture, where you will find Jesus the Messiah claiming to be
Almighty GOD! No Not One!!
In all the verses that you listed you did not show one. Why? Because there isn't one? Why? Because Jesus never claimed to be Almighty GOD!!
Now let's go through some of your points:
a) Jesus the Messiah, the Son of man, is GOD's ultimate representative.
As such, GOD hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [John 5.22]
(John 5:27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Hence, Jesus is the Judge of all men, because Almighty GOD ...
(Acts 17:31) ... hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Almighty GOD raised him from the dead!
Which leads me to my next point.
The good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.
GOD Almighty alone is immortal.
[1 Tim 6.16]
Immortality means one cannot die &
ALMIGHTY GOD CANNOT DIE!!
Immortality is His alone to grant.
So, although both the Father & the Son share titles such as "Shepherd, First & Last", etc;
this alone shows a clear distinction.
ALMIGHTY GOD CANNOT DIE.
Jesus, the ONE GOD's Son, died for our sins, hence,
Jesus is NOT Almighty GOD!
b) Look at the context of Isaiah's verses concerning GOD not giving His glory.
And then compare (John 17:22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;
that they may be one, even as we are one:
Does that then make the disciples, GOD!!
Note, that they may be ONE even as the Father and the Son are ONE!
(See also John 17.11,21; cp. John 10.30)
Again, does that then make the disciples, GOD!!
Also, (Mat 5:14) Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Yet, Jesus is the light of the world!!
Does that then, make his disciples, Jesus or GOD?
NO! Of course not. Sharing titles as representatives (i.e. the disciples represent Christ, Christ represents GOD; cp. John 17.18) does not make one GOD!! The same goes for Jesus Christ!
c) Concerning "I AM", see Is Jesus the "I AM?"
d) The religious leaders accused Jesus falsely many times. They did not have his word in them [John 8.37], they neither knew him nor his Father [8,19], etc. It is not a good idea to build one's theology on Jesus' accusers; who did NOT believe him to be their Messiah!! John records their false accusations for our edification; you weren't meant to side with them!!
Concerning Mark 2:5ff ... read (Mark 2:12) And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
(Mat 9:8) But when the multitude saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
Get it? The people glorified the ONE GOD for giving such authority (in this case, to forgive sins on GOD's behalf) to men i.e. the man Jesus of Nazareth.
They recognized that Jesus possessed GOD-given authority, to do what he did; and therefore glorified his GOD & their GOD, in this regard.
The people weren't thinking that Jesus himself was GOD!?!?
See also Jesus Forgave Sins
When accused of making himself equal to GOD; what did Jesus say? He retorted by saying:
(John 5:19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. ... etc
"Can do nothing of himself" are not the words of equality!
e) Jesus indeed claimed to be the Messiah. Do you know what that means?
It means you are "The Anointed One OF GOD"
[Luke 2.26, 9.20; Acts 4.26, Rev 11.15]
Every Jew knows that. Therefore, the Anointed One isn't himself GOD!!
Rather, he is YAHWEH's Anointed One, GOD's Christ!! GOD's Appointed King
[John 1.49]
Therefore, claiming Messiahship,
isn't claiming to be Almighty GOD!?!
Look again, at the same question: "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?"
Get it? Are you the Messiah, the Son of the ONE GOD??
Every Jew of Christ's era, knew that to claim to be the Messiah, is to claim to be GOD's Son, GOD's Appointed, Foreordained King of Psalm Chapter 2; who will be seated at the ONE GOD's right hand according to Psalm 110.1; and be the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven according to Dan 7.13-14.
These terms are synonymous.
And that is exactly who Jesus claimed to be!! That Son of GOD. That Son of man!
Now, because the High Priest & Co., didn't believe on him, they accused Jesus of blasphemy i.e. being a false claimant, a false messiah, a false prophet.
[Yet another false accusation. Compare:
(John 10:36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest;
because I said, I am the Son of God?]
Read the verses concerning Jesus before the Sanhedrin again. Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the Son of the ONE GOD [i.e. the Blessed, Power];
and the Son of man, who will be
at GOD's right hand.
[Matt 26.63-64, Mark 14:61-62,
Luke 22.67-70]
All synonyms meaning the very same thing ... the promised Messiah.
Jesus never claimed to be himself, GOD!!
Stop reading into verses, things which are not there!!
(Also in regards to Isaiah 9.6, see for example, Concerning Isaiah 9:6)
f) Jesus was indeed worshiped.
However, one needs to understand what "worship" in that context meant in the times of Jesus.
Today, we see the word "worship" and think one thing: GOD Almighty alone is worshiped!
Not so, in Jesus' time.
The word "worship"
[Heb. shachah; Grk. proskuneo]
had an alternative meaning when used in regards to men, such as prophets, kings & men of GOD.
(All these terms apply to Jesus of Nazareth!)
To find out what I mean, please read these articles:
g) As concerning the authority in which Jesus spoke:
(John 7:16-18) Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
(John 12:48-50) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
(John 8:26-27) I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
(John 14:10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
h) Concerning prayer ...
(John 16:23) And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Look again at the prayers of the apostles. They always prayed to the ONE GOD, yes, in the name of Jesus!
That doesn't make Jesus' GOD!?! Rather, that makes Jesus, GOD's vindicated, glorified, servant who through his total obedience & sacrifice; has brought about mankind's redemption; therefore, whatsoever you ask the Father in His Son's name, the Father will do it i.e. for Christ' sake; hence:
Acts of the Apostles 4 [NASB]
24. And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said,
"O Lord, it is You who MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH AND THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM,
25. who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,
`WHY DID THE GENTILES RAGE, AND THE PEOPLES DEVISE FUTILE THINGS ?
26. `THE KINGS OF THE EARTH TOOK THEIR STAND,
AND THE RULERS WERE GATHERED TOGETHER
AGAINST THE LORD AND AGAINST HIS CHRIST.'
27. "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
28. to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
29. "And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence,
30. while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus."
Now come on, be honest? Is this a prayer to Jesus? And is Jesus referred to in this prayer as if he is himself, GOD???
No! Jesus (like David) is GOD's servant!!
(cp. Isa 42.1, Matt 12.18)
Even in his glorified, immortalized position.
So prayers ought to be offered to the ONE GOD in the name of His Son and holy Servant, Jesus the Messiah our Lord.
This is the apostolic practice throughout the NT.
