My answer to 7 Assertions

A couple of years ago on another forum, someone who believed in the so-called 'deity of Christ' presented the following assertions. Here are my replies to each assertion ...

Assertion 1:

Jesus Accepted Worship Jesus Himself told Satan that no one should be worshipped and served except God (Matthew 4:10 and Luke 4:8 . Yet… Jesus accepted worship.

MY REPLY:
Jesus was and is 'worshipped' because he is the Lord Messiah, the Son of the Living GOD. The scriptures distinctly depict two types of appropriate worship
1) The worship which belongs to GOD Almighty alone
2) And the worship which is given to kings, prophets and dignitaries.
For example, (1 Chr 29:20) And David said to all the congregation, Now bless YAHWEH your God. And all the congregation blessed YAHWEH God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped YAHWEH, and the king.


The Bible's words for worship, are the Hebrew word Shachah and the Greek word Proskuneo.
They are consistently used in regards to both GOD and men. 
I have already gone into greater detail, therefore I refer you to:
The Worship of Christ

Assertion 2:

Jesus Demonstrated That He was God Jesus had authority over demons and Jesus said His miracles spoke for him (John 10:25). The Old Testament prophesied of Jesus. Jesus also said that no one came to the Father except through Him (John 14:6; 6:45; 8:24) ... Jesus made Himself equal with God

MY REPLY:
Both the authority that Jesus exhibited and the miracles proved the point that Jesus was indeed the Messiah, GOD's agent, GOD's representative, GOD's Anointed One, GOD's Sent One. Therefore, Jesus solely claimed to be the Messiah. He never ever made himself equal to Almighty GOD. All the examples that you used can be explained in that light.
Jesus is GOD's ultimate plenipotentiary and representative.

Assertion 3:

Jesus said for us to "believe also in Me." In John 14:1b. Do you believe in Jesus?

MY REPLY:
Seeing that Jesus is 'THAT PROPHET' spoken of by Moses who was to be 'like unto Moses' [Deut 18:15,18-19],
I personally, do indeed believe in him.
Compare ...

• (John 14:1) Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
• (Exo 14:31) And Israel saw that great work which YAHWEH did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared YAHWEH, and believed YAHWEH, and his servant Moses.
• (1 Sam 12:18 ) So Samuel called unto YAHWEH; and YAHWEH sent thunder and rain that day: and all the people greatly feared YAHWEH and Samuel.

Assertion 4:

Jesus Forgave Sins Against God Only God can forgive sins, and Jesus forgave sins against God, then Jesus was showing that He was God.

MY REPLY:
If that indeed proved that Jesus was Almighty GOD, then all the apostles are GOD also!  What do I mean?
The same authority wherewith Jesus forgave sins was given to his apostles.
(John 20:20-23) And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

The words 'forgiven/forgive' in Matt chap. 9 and the words 'remit/remitted' in John chap. 20 are the same Greek word aphiemi ...
John 20:23 could easily read ... Whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; ...

The apostles were to forgive/remit sins even as Jesus their Master had done so!!
Yet they are not GOD are they???

Let's look again at this event ...
[Please note: The word used for 'power' is the Greek word exousia which means AUTHORITY!]

Quote:

(Mat 9:4-8 ) And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power/AUTHORITY on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7 And he arose, and departed to his house. 8 But when the multitude saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power/AUTHORITY unto men. (Mark 2:12) And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion. (Luke 5:25-26) And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. 26 And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

Get it! The man's sins were forgiven via the authority that Almighty GOD had given to Jesus, the Son of man ... in light of this, the witnesses of this great event glorified GOD who gave such authority to men.

Thank GOD for common people! [Mark 12:37] Who are not bound up by Greek Hellenistic philosophy and church councils' teachings ... common people ... who could clearly see that this man before them, the man Jesus of Nazareth [Acts 2:22] was not GOD Almighty but rather GOD's authorized, appointed agent ... a man authorized and appointed to forgive sins on behalf of GOD Himself ... a man who did all things by the power of GOD, because it was GOD the Father who did the works!

Whose report will we believe? Those who believed on him [Matt 9:8, Acts 2:22]
or the so-called church fathers who taught that Jesus is Almighty GOD?
The choice is ours!!

Assertion 5:

Jesus did one of two things: a) Showed He was God by proving He had the power, b) Deliberately misled them to believe that He was God when He was not.

MY REPLY:
Jesus did NEITHER.
What he did  or rather what GOD did through him,
was to show that His Son was authorized and appointed by Him to forgive sins and heal in His name.
As Jesus himself said ....

• (John 5:19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
• (John 8:28 ) Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
• (John 14:10-11) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Jesus had NO POWER OF HIMSELF. GOD worked through Jesus. GOD the Father did all the works. Jesus DID NOTHING OF HIMSELF.
GOD via the works showed that Jesus was the Messiah and His Son.

Jesus misled no one. He taught those who had an ear to hear, that he was indeed, the Messiah, the Son of the Living GOD, and as such, they were to put their trust in him, because everything he said and did, was OF GOD ALMIGHTY, his Father and not of himself!

Quote:

(John 12:48-50) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Assertion 6:

However, note that Jesus said "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins". So Jesus said it was He who had the power, and he was not just announcing that the Father forgave.

MY REPLY:
Jesus 'HAD' authority/power to forgive sins because it was GIVEN him from Almighty GOD.
[Please note: The word used for 'power' is the Greek word exousia which means AUTHORITY!]

Quote:

(Mat 9:4-8 ) And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power/AUTHORITY on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7 And he arose, and departed to his house. 8 But when the multitude saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power/AUTHORITY unto men.

Assertion 7:

The Rest of the New Testament The gospels and the rest of the New Testament shows that Jesus' followers were taught that Jesus was God. a) Jesus and the Father have the same nature (Philippians 2:5) b) Both are rightfully worshipped (Hebrews 1:6) c) Both rightfully called God (John 1:1; Heb 1:8,9) d) Both are prayed to (Acts 7:7:59-60) e) Everything in the world was created through Christ (John 1:3, 10, Colossians 1:16) f) Everything is sustained through Christ (Col 1:17) g) The fullness of deity is in Jesus (Colossians 1:19). h) Jesus is called God in 2 Cor. 11:3 and Titus 2:13 i) Worshipped in Heaven in Revelation 5:8-9; 22:20 j) Prayed to Christ Acts 7:59

MY REPLY:
Rather, the gospels and the rest of the New Testament shows that Jesus' followers were taught ...
that Jesus was indeed the Messiah, the Son of the Living GOD, GOD's appointed agent and plenipotentiary

1. The Greek text of Philippians 2:6 is more correctly rendered that Jesus did not grasp after equality with GOD
   Unlike Adam [Gen 3:5]. Where Adam failed, Jesus succeeded. Where Adam sought to exalt himself, Jesus humbled himself.
   As followers of Christ, we ought to have the same mind.
   The expression 'form of GOD' is equivalent to 'image of GOD' [Gen 1:27]; i.e. Jesus the second man, the second Adam, being a man, he was indeed the ultimate 'image of GOD', the ultimate 'man'; he was the image that GOD had intended all men to be ... Jesus proved this by being in total submission to Almighty GOD, hence all his followers now need to be conformed to Jesus' image. [Rom 8:29]
   
2. Both are rightfully worshipped (Hebrews 1:6)
   Yes. GOD as GOD ALMIGHTY! Jesus as the King Messiah, the man whom Almighty GOD made both Christ and Lord of all; even angels therefore, have been made subject to him. [Acts 2:36, 10:36; 1 Pet 3:22, 1 Cor 15:27-28; Heb 2:5-9]
   
3. John 1:1 is speaking about the word of God
   Moses is also called 'God/elohim'. [Exo 7:1] So were the OT judges [Exo 21:6, 22:8-9] So your point is?
   
4. Stephen is speaking to Jesus who he sees.
   Stephen is not praying to him. He is invoking and calling upon Jesus whilst beholding him. There is a difference!.
   
   Solely GOD the Father is prayed to throughout the scriptures, both OT & NT.
   
5. Everything in the world was created by GOD Almighty.
   The new creation, the new heavens and earth are created by GOD through Christ.
   John 1:3 is about GOD's spoken word (cp. Psalms 33:6,9)
   
   John 1:10 is talking about Jesus, the Son of the Creator.
   The Scriptures recognized solely ONE Creator ... this ONE Creator is YAHWEH, the GOD of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob;
   the GOD & Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. [Mal 2:10]; YAHWEH created all things alone! [Isa 44:24]
   What the biased KJV translators did was to translate the Greek word ’dia’ as ‘by’ in v.10. They did the same thing in Col 1:16, Eph 3:9, and Heb 1:2; hence to foist their doctrine/leaven that a ‘God the Son’ made all things. However this is not what the Scriptures teach.
   
   The Greek word ’dia’ around 88 times is translated ‘through’.
   Hence, John 1:10 need not to be translated ‘by’ but rather THROUGH! Therefore, GOD Almighty, the Father, made all things with His Son in mind ... with His Son in view. (In like manner, Col 1.16 is about the new creation to come. GOD also is creating this new creation with His Son in view!)
   
   So, concerning John 1.10 ... Hence the Son was in the world, and the world was made actually by GOD the Father THROUGH the Son [i.e. in view of the Son], and the world knew the Son not.
   This verse is definitely NOT saying that Jesus the Messiah made all things!
    
   The Scriptures teach no such thing. Both Christ [Mark 10:6, 13:19] and the apostles [Acts 4:24, 14:15, 17:24 cp. Matt 11:25, Luke 10:24] taught that GOD, the Father, namely YAHWEH; is the sole Creator of all things. In fact, in NO Jewish writings (I am open to be corrected) will you find any concept that the Messiah is the Creator or Maker of all things. In fact, let me quote from the Talmud that also gives the gist of what I am saying ...

   Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 98b wrote:

   ”The World was not Created but only for the Messiah”

6. Everything is sustained through Christ (Col 1:17)
   Yep! That is his appointed position by Almighty GOD. However, it is GOD who sustains all things through Christ.
   
7. Yep! GOD's fullness dwells in the man Christ Jesus.
   He may be 'full of GOD' however he is not GOD. Rather, Jesus is GOD's human temple.
   Also, Paul prayed that ... (Eph 3:19) And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
   
8. Jesus is called God in 2 Cor. 11:3 and Titus 2:13
   He is???
   
   (2 Cor 11:3) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
   Bit puzzled by this one.
   
   However, the Greek text of Titus 2:13 reads rather:
   (Titus 2:13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the appearing of the glory of the great God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ;
   Compare (Mat 16:27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
   (Luke 9:26) For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
   See also Mark 8:38
   
9. Revelation 5:8-9 ... Yep! Christ is due worship and honor as the Lamb of Almighty GOD.
   (Rev 5:9) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
   
10. Check any bible. The word 'God' in Acts 7:59 is in italics i.e. it is NOT in the Greek text
    Acts 7:59 actually reads ... And they stoned Stephen, calling upon and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

 

The Worship of Christ

A couple of years ago, I was asked about the 'worship' of Christ on another forum. This was my reply ...

Greetings ...,
allow me to elaborate on 'worship' and its distinctions.

Theologians call it, 'religious worship' (which is due to GOD alone)
and 'civil worship' (which is due to men such as dignitaries and kings).
The Scriptures describe both kinds of 'worship'.

The Hebrew word for worship, shachah - Strong's 7812, is used more often in the OT (the Hebrew Bible), in regards to men, than it is used in regards to Almighty GOD!! The KJV/Bible translators obscured this fact by translating this word as
bow down, fall down, make obeisance, do obeisance, do reverence, etc.
However, the main thing to notice, is that this kind of 'worship' does not violate the commandments which speak of the worship which is due to Almighty GOD alone. Why? Because when men are shachah-worshipped in the OT, they are not being worshipped AS Almighty GOD! They are shachah-worshipped for who they are and for what (or who) they represent. Hence men of GOD, patriarchs, prophets and kings, (even parents and siblings), were given due worship/reverence accordingly ... it is obvious, however, that these men were not being shachah-worshipped AS Almighty GOD!

The kings of Israel/Judah of the OT, were the anointed ones of GOD, GOD's appointed kings; they were royalty, they were therefore, given due worship/obeisance. This 'kind of (civil) worship' is still witnessed today in countries which still have royal families. From what I gathered, the English call it 'curtsy'; and they also refer to their 'mayor' as 'the Right Worshipful'!
In contrast, in biblical times, it was the norm to fall flat on one's face, when greeting a dignitary or king.

The NT equivalent word for worship is proskuneo - Strong's 4352. When Jesus gave the parable about forgiveness concerning a certain king [Matt 18:23], he described how the servant proskuneo-worshipped the king [v. 26]; whilst in contrast, the servant's fellowservant simply besought him! [v. 29] The difference being, the servant was no king! Even in the regeneration when the saints are glorified, the enemies of the saints will have to proskuneo-worship before their feet. [Rev 3:9] The implications should be clear!

The OT, therefore, gives us the necessary backdrop of the NT. When we search the Scriptures (as commanded by our Master Rabbi/Teacher Jesus), we can now see why Jesus of Nazareth was proskuneo-worshipped. Just like the patriarchs, prophets, dignitaries and kings of old, Jesus of Nazareth was given due worship/reverence.
Why? Because Jesus of Nazareth is

• the promised Prophet par excellence of Deut 18:15,18-19;
  
• the promised King of Psalms 2; the promised
  'Son of GOD/David' of 2 Sam 7:14, 1 Chron. 17:11-14;
  
• the promised David's lord of Psalms 110:1.
  

When recognized as such, he was given due worship/obeisance/shachah/proskuneo as shown throughout the NT.

Some recognized Jesus as the promised 'Son of GOD/David', the King of Israel, the Messiah.
Please note: these terms are synonymous. 'Son of GOD' is equivalent to King of Israel. In biblical times, to claim to be the Son of GOD was to claim to be the King of Israel, the King of the Jews. Hence Nathaniel's statement: (John 1:49) Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Solomon was the first king to be conferred the title Son of GOD or GOD's Son (See 1 Chron 22:6-11, 28:5-7).
Son of GOD, therefore, is actually a royal title! - Let me use a quote from Colin Brown,

Colin Brown wrote:

the title "Son of God" is not in itself a designation of personal deity or an expression of metaphysical distinctions within the Godhead. Indeed to be "Son of God" one has to be a being who is not God! It is a designation for a creature indicating a special relationship with God. In particular, it denotes God’s representative, God’s vice-regent. It is a designation of kingship, identifying the king as God’s son.

Being recognized as 'the Son of GOD',
Jesus was proskuneo-worshipped as such
e.g. Matt 14:33, John 9:35-38, etc.
Whilst others, simply recognized him as a mighty Prophet of GOD, and proskuneo-worshipped him as such
e.g. Matt 8:2, 9:18, etc.
(Even the Romans mockingly proskuneo-worshipped him as the 'King of the Jews' - Mark 15:18-19)

By searching the OT, we see that the NT examples are nothing out of the ordinary. The difference being that Jesus of Nazareth is 'the Promised One, the Promised Messiah, the Promised King'.
The Magi from the east came from afar, therefore, to give due worship/reverence and pay homage to the Promised King of Israel hence the Magi's request (Matthew 2:2) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him; and Herod's reply (Matthew 2:8) And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

The Magi never came to worship a deity or a 'god-man'. NO! They came to pay homage and give due reverence/worship [Matt 2:11] to GOD's Son, GOD's Anointed One, GOD's Chosen King.
(compare in contrast, Matt 21:37-39, Mark 12:6-8, Luke 20:13-15)

Throughout the NT we see other examples of this reverence. Jesus died because he proclaimed that he was the Messiah, the King of Israel, the promised Son of GOD of Psalms 2. However, to quote

Colin Brown wrote:

The designation of Jesus as "Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead" (Rom. 1:4) is a reaffirmation of that Son-Kingship with divine authority, insofar as by the resurrection the Spirit has overturned the negative verdict of the Sanhedrin in condemning Jesus to death as a blasphemer who sought to lead Israel astray.

Like I said earlier, the OT gives us the necessary backdrop for the NT. So here are some more examples of this kind of worship (The word(s) which correspond to shachah are in red) :-

• (Genesis 23:7) And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth.
  
• (Genesis 23:12) And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.
  
• {towards Esau} (Genesis 33:3) And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.
  
• (Genesis 33:6-7) Then the handmaidens came near, they and their children, and they bowed themselves. 7 And Leah also with her children came near, and bowed themselves: and after came Joseph near and Rachel, and they bowed themselves.
  
• {towards Joseph} (Genesis 42:6) And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.
  
• (Genesis 43:26) And when Joseph came home, they brought him the present which was in their hand into the house, and bowed themselves to him to the earth.
  
• (Genesis 43:28 ) And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.
  
• {towards Moses} (Exodus 11:8 ) And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and bow down themselves unto me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that follow thee: and after that I will go out. And he went out from Pharaoh in a great anger.
  
• {towards Jethro} (Exodus 18:7) And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance, and kissed him; ...
  
• (1 Samuel 24:8 ) David also arose afterward, and went out of the cave, and cried after Saul, saying, My lord the king. And when Saul looked behind him, David stooped with his face to the earth, and bowed himself.
  
• {towards David} (1 Samuel 25:41) And she arose, and bowed herself on her face to the earth, and said, Behold, let thine handmaid be a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord.
  
• (2 Samuel 9:6) Now when Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, was come unto David, he fell on his face, and did reverence. And David said, Mephibosheth. And he answered, Behold thy servant!
  
• (2 Samuel 9:8 ) And he bowed himself, and said, What is thy servant, that thou shouldest look upon such a dead dog as I am?
  
• (2 Samuel 14:4) And when the woman of Tekoah spake to the king, she fell on her face to the ground, and did obeisance, and said, Help, O king.
  
• (2 Samuel 14:22) And Joab fell to the ground on his face, and bowed himself, and thanked the king: ...
  
• (2 Samuel 14:33) So Joab came to the king, and told him: and when he had called for Absalom, he came to the king, and bowed himself on his face to the ground before the king: and the king kissed Absalom.
  
• {towards Absalom} (2 Samuel 15:5) And it was so, that when any man came nigh to him to do him obeisance, he put forth his hand, and took him, and kissed him.
  
• {towards King David} (2 Samuel 18:28 ) And Ahimaaz called, and said unto the king, All is well. And he fell down to the earth upon his face before the king, and said, Blessed be YAHWEH thy God, which hath delivered up the men that lifted up their hand against my lord the king.
  
• (2 Samuel 24:20) And Araunah looked, and saw the king and his servants coming on toward him: and Araunah went out, and bowed himself before the king on his face upon the ground.
  
• (1 Kings 1:16) And Bathsheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king. And the king said, What wouldest thou?
  
• (1 Kings 1:23) And they told the king, saying, Behold Nathan the prophet. And when he was come in before the king, he bowed himself before the king with his face to the ground.
  
• (1 Kings 1:31) Then Bathsheba bowed with her face to the earth, and did reverence to the king, and said, Let my lord king David live for ever.
  
• (1 Kings 1:53) So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.
  
• (1 Kings 2:19) Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
  
• {towards Elisha} (2 Kings 2:15) And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.
  
• (2 Kings 4:37) Then she went in, and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out.
  
• (1 Chronicles 21:21) And as David came to Ornan, Ornan looked and saw David, and went out of the threshingfloor, and bowed himself to David with his face to the ground.
  

And the list goes on ...

Therefore in conclusion, let us remember, there is 'worship' which is due unto solely Almighty GOD [e.g. Exo 20:5, Deut 5:19,
Matt 4:10, John 4:20-24, Rev 4:10-11, 19:10, 22:9, etc] and there is 'worship' which is due unto the King Messiah
[e.g. Matt 14:33, 20:20, 28:9, etc].
Compare the worship/shachah of YAHWEH & King David i.e.
(1 Chronicles 29:20) And David said to all the congregation, Now bless YAHWEH your God. And all the congregation blessed YAHWEH God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped YAHWEH, and the king.
...