Looking at JESUS! A Response to the Oneness Faith by Jesavee

Looking at JESUS! A Response to the Oneness Faith

A friend of mine just brought up a lovely point concerning Jesus Christ our Lord. Some people believe that Jesus Christ is the literal body of God. Scriptures give clarity that Jesus is the beloved Son of God and not just His "flesh" or "body" without a separate will from the Father as taught by some.

Let me show you something: John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

You might know where I am going with this, and it is good that you do. Some people interpret this as meaning that if they saw Jesus they were literally looking at the Father. Jesus himself clarifies that this is not the case in a most straight forward fashion. Here is what our Lord Messiah Jesus said:

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

If Jesus was the "flesh" or literal "body" of God, then to see him, would be looking directly at God's shape, and to hear him would be literally hearing the voice of the Father. However again Jesus told them that they neither had heard the voice of the Father at anytime, nor seen the shape of the Father in the book of John.
This should be considered in the resulting interpretation of John 14:8-9.

The LORD [YAHWEH] said to Moses that he (Moses) would see his back parts, but his (YAHWEH's) face will not be seen, and we know indeed Moses saw God's back parts because He (GOD) said that he would see them. According to John 5:37 those "back parts" were not in view when Jesus was in view, because they were looking right at Jesus as demonstrated in John but they had not seen the Father's shape. Here is what Moses saw back in the book of Exodus:

Exodus 33:21-23 21And YAHWEH said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: 22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Jesus truly is the only begotten Son of God, the Father. He told the woman in the book of John to tell them something that I believe is very "telling":

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

There is a reason why Jesus lifted up his eyes to heaven [John 17.1].

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Even so, that voice, from the one that was pleased with Jesus Christ was from HEAVEN.

Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Our high priest Jesus Christ has passed into the heavens. He is able to save those that come to God by him. He is in the presence of God for us. Our God is not a high priest, but Jesus our Lord Messiah, His Son is one indeed.

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The Second Man by Jesavee

The Second Man

I agree Jesus is our Lord from heaven, meaning that he came from God, and that is great news. It is the reason why he is called the Son of God. His Father is our Father, and his God is our God, because he himself is not the Father. We have only one Father. Jesus is our Lord and savior because God our Savior sent him to be one for us. The Father gave him.

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

John 16:29-33 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. 31Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? 32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. 33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Jesus our Master called them "brethren" in Matthew 23:8-9, and he said one is your Father, which is in heaven. He said this while he was on the earth talking to them.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Father is called the Father for a reason. He is the FATHER.

The verse said this: 1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. There is an extremely important comparison being made in 1 Corinthians 15:47. It should be considered in your interpretation.

The first part of the verse says:"The first man is of the earth, earthy;"

Here are some sure facts about Adam:
1.Adam was the son of God. God created him directly. (Luke 3:38)
2.Adam was created from the dust of the earth, and through him came sin.
3.He is from the earth, earthly.
4.By Adam there came sin.
5.Last but not least Adam was human..

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here are some sure facts about Jesus Christ our Lord:
1.Jesus was/is the Son of God. God created him directly. (Luke 1:35)
2.Jesus was not created from the earth, like Adam was. Jesus was actually begotten, made of a woman.
God was/is his Father (as Luke 1:35 demonstrates beautifully).
Yes God's only BEGOTTEN Son. He is definitely unique.
3.Jesus was human, except now there is a difference. Jesus was OBEDIENT to the Father unlike ADAM who was the human that brought sin. (John 15:10)
4.By Jesus came eternal life.(Romans 5:21)
5.God raised the human Jesus from the dead. God has highly exalted him and given him a name that is above every name, and there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. He is our High Priest that continues always saving those that come to God by him. Jesus is the head of the body, which is the church.

There is a reason why Adam is called the first man and Jesus our Lord Messiah is called the second man, as you may notice in the above comparisons.

The phraseology of "son of God" consistently is used in regards to beings that are not God, the Father in scriptures. Because the Father is not a son, but the Father.‎

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Yes God, He is the God of all. Through Jesus Christ our Lord, He has begotten us again into a lively hope, since through the first man came sin! Now we have the beautiful hope of resurrection of life by the second man. We can be joint-heirs with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord!! That is extremely good news beyond reason!!!

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

God is not heir to anything, because God is the Father, the only true God. God is not Christ, and Christ is not God. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. God was in Christ yes. God was not Christ himself. It does not mean that God himself was contained in Christ the man. The Father of Jesus, and our Father, was in heaven and is in heaven. I know that "God was in Christ" does not mean that Jesus was literally God, his Father, the only true God, because..

Jesus himself told the woman I ascend to my Father, and your Father. "...ascend to my Father"

Jesus himself said his Father is the only true God. Only means unique, and is a strong confirmation that his Father is indeed the only ONE God. Jesus is the Son of the Father, who is the ONE God.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Even so Peter wasn't thinking Jesus was God in Acts 2. He said Jesus was a man approved of God.

There are many traditions in the world today. But is the doctrine you are teaching found to be taught in the scriptures? If you are of the Oneness faith is there a passage that says that Jesus and his Father are the one God, or that Jesus and his Father are one individual/being? If you are of the faith that teaches the Doctrine of the Trinity where is it in the scriptures that states that the three persons of the Trinity are the one true God? Which passage states that God is ONE group of three persons (Trinity)?

If your tradition is a new one? There might be an issue. Paul said this: 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Should they have been expecting a new revelation? Where did Paul or anyone else specify this? Paul says: 2 Thessalonians 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3 says: That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the Image of God by Jesavee

...

You might be thinking but what about 1 Timothy 3:16? One might say, "It says the word "God" in the KJV so that must mean God himself appeared in the flesh."

OK many people do not like this but God's inspired word is true, and the original manuscripts in their original form are completely accurate. However in 1 Timothy 3:16 according to the context of the scriptures and written word, that this was "translated" into English from, there is an obvious mistranslation.

I will show you this here, but I ask you if you ever have time, because it doesn't hurt to study it, to please research the Greek of this text on your own time in addition to what I show you here. You must confirm things for yourself. Otherwise anyone can tell you basically anything and just say, "Yes just have faith that its right, for it is Biblical" Just because someone says something is Biblical whatever it may be, doesn't mean it is actually is Biblical or true... seek God for clarity on this.

The word "God" is not in the original Greek text. Have you ever wondered why some of the new translations don't have that word in them when you get to this particular verse?

Examples: ...

English Standard Version (©2001) Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

New American Standard Bible (©1995) By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) And this Mystery of Righteousness is truly great, which was revealed in the flesh and was justified in The Spirit; He appeared to Angels and was preached among the Gentiles; He was trusted in the world and he ascended into glory.

Douay-Rheims Bible And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory.

English Revised Version And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory.

Now ask yourself, did God ascend to his God? Did the Father ascend to his Father? Does the Father have a Father? How then is he the Father if he indeed ever had a Father of himself?

Jesus Christ is who ascended and was manifested according to scriptures, and context shows substantially that he, Jesus the Christ, is the Son of the living God, he is not the Father (the Father is the only true God).

John 20:17 tells us that Jesus is the one that was received up into glory. For he indeed was "taken" up. ¹⁷Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

To reiterate: "I (Jesus himself) ascend unto MY Father (the only true God), and your Father (the only true God); and to my God (the only true God), and your God (the only true God).

Yes I repeat Jesus himself was "TAKEN". Please pardon the caps they are only for emphasis, my intent is the most politest, please bear with me.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus was CARRIED into heaven! Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

So again I ask anyone who is reading this these questions in regards to 1 Timothy 3:16.

Who was carried into heaven? Who ascended into glory? Who was manifested so that he might destroy the works of the devil? Who ascended to his God and our God, to his Father and our Father?

Who is this wonderful individual?
It is none other than Jesus the Christ. The Son of the living God. The Just One!

Here is a site that might help you get further information concerning the Greek text of scriptures. Its great for beginners. For I am not so knowledgeable and this one is helpful to me. The scriptures are so valuable that they are worth the study!!!!!!!! (Beyond reason, they are valuable, and should be studied.)

http://biblos.com/1_timothy/3-16.htm

So back to the main point! There is indeed a distinction between Jesus the Christ our Lord, and the one God, who is his Father, that sent him.

Notice the popular verse 1 John 5:20. This is widely popular with the Trinitarian and Oneness perspectives, as they believe it proves directly that the the Son is truly God as well as the Father is truly God. The Trinitarian perspective believes they are two separate persons who are in a group with another that is called a Trinity, the Oneness perspective believes Jesus and his Father are the same individual, with no distinction however. The Oneness perspective believes that Jesus did not have a will of his own, and is literally the body (garment of flesh, a fleshly robe) of God.

OK so here is the verse which is a beautiful one to say the least:

1 John 5:20

²⁰And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Now notice the phrase "This is the true God, and eternal life," comes immediately after the words "Son Jesus Christ". That is what people zoom in on automatically, and practically drop the whole meaning of the verse in their great excitement to believe that the Son of God is God himself, or the 2nd person/individual of a Trinity (a who in a what).

Let's look more closely at this beautiful, thoroughly informative verse. In fact let me add a little context to it, to spice things up!

1 John 5:19-20 ¹⁹And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. ²⁰And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

OK are you familiar with fractions? Fractions can be simplified. So can this verse, if we just "break it down" so it is easier to understand. Verse 19 says that we know that we are of God. OK obviously it is talking about the one God without a doubt here in this particular verse.

Now lets go to verse 20, and it begins, "...And we know that the Son of God is come.." OK there is no mistake who the Son of God is that is come! Who is he? Jesus the Christ our Lord. The one that Peter said was the Son of the living God. So what did the Son of God do? Because the verse says that he, the Son of God, did something.

"...and hath given us an understanding,"

OK. This is majorly important. An actual understanding has been given of something. This means that it is not a mystery. Something that one understands is not a mystery, because if it was a mystery there would not be an understanding about it. Unless of course you understand that you don't understand it, and its a mystery. But that is not what its talking about here. The Son of God is come, and has given (he seriously gave it) us an understanding. Now what kind of benefit was this "understanding" to give us? What did it accomplish???? Would Jesus come and give us an understanding without a purpose? I personally do not think so.

For it says: "...that we may know him that is true." Now that is really nice of the Son of God to come and give us an understanding so that we may know him that is true. The "him" that is true, is actually the one that Jesus is come and given us an understanding about. So who is this "him", is this "him" actually Jesus himself? Did Jesus come to give us an understanding of himself? Please reflect on that question and consider the scriptures.

For it says: "...and we are in him that is true," OK we are getting to the "nitty gritty" so to speak:) We are actually in "him" that is true". There is that "him" again. So again who exactly is this him? Is it really Jesus, the Son of God like most people say? Well lets see if the verse will answer the question for us! I believe the verse is right, even above millions of people multiplied by infinity.

It says, "even in his Son Jesus Christ." Alright I don't know about you, but this automatically makes me think of 2 Timothy 2:15. So we have found out an obvious fact about the "him" that is true. Do you know what that fact is about the "him"?? Well you don't have to give up. I will tell you what it is. The "him" that is true has a SON. Let me show you so you will see it for yourself:

"..we are in HIM that is true, even in HIS Son Jesus Christ."

OK. I want to tell you more about this fact that we learned concerning the "him" that is true. The "him" that is true has a Son, and I'm not talking about just any son. The Son of the "him" that is true is our Lord Jesus Christ. For we are in "him" that is true, even in "his" Son Jesus Christ! Now answer one of my earlier questions, and I'll even add more questions to go along with it.

Is Jesus, the Son of God, the "him" that is true? If your answer is yes, please answer this one too. Does Jesus, the Son of God, have a Son named Jesus who is the Christ? I sincerely hope your answer is at least NO to that one. Now another question I have for you. Who exactly is Jesus the Son OF? Because the answer of this will indeed tell us who the "him" that is true actually is. ALRIGHT I WILL ANSWER IT!!!!

Jesus is the Son of GOD, the FATHER. (The caps are to express my sheer excitement that I wanted you to realize I had while typing this). The Father is the "him" that is true. In fact THIS is the TRUE GOD and ETERNAL LIFE.

I will show you something very wonderful. Jesus knew this also. He knew that his Father was the only true God. I will show you again that this is true:

John 17 ¹These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: ²As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. ³And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

...

Shared Titles of God and Christ: The Biggest Stumbling Block to "Oneness Believers" by Mike Hicks

Shared Titles of God and Christ: The Biggest Stumbling Block to "Oneness Believers" by Mike Hicks

Oneness Pentecostals (exponents of modalism as it was anciently called), are correct in their acknowledgement that the Bible does not teach that God is a Trinity. Their belief that God is one singular Person is commendable and is certainly a minority position within Christendom. Their failure lies in retaining the false Trinitarian concept of

• the dual nature of Jesus,
• the idea that God became a man,
• that Christ has two natures:
• one deity, the other human.

Whereas Trinitarians believe that God the Son became a man, Oneness believers insist that God the Father became a man. Both these views are false to Scripture.

Oneness adherents tend to place the distinction between the Son and the Father as "a flesh vs. Spirit" contrast. For example, let us look at three different ways of explaining Jesus praying to his Father in the garden of Gethsemane. We will consider the Trinitarian view, the Oneness view, and the Biblical Unitarian view.

• Trinitarian view: God the Son was praying to God the Father. (Although some trinitarians will add that "Jesus was praying out of his human nature, not out of his divine nature.")
• Oneness view: Although Jesus is the Father robed in flesh, his human nature (the Son) was praying to his divine nature (the Father).
• Biblical Unitarian view: The man, Christ Jesus, was praying to the One God of the Bible, his Father.

One of the major stumbling blocks to Oneness believers is the fact that titles that are applied to God are applied also to Jesus Christ. The assertion is that, since God and Jesus share many titles (Redeemer, Savior, God, Shepherd, Lord, King of Kings, Judge) they must be one and the same Person. This follows from the Oneness conviction that God is a single Person. The argument can be very convincing and it is certainly one of the major hindrances to Oneness believers in coming to a Biblical Unitarian understanding of God and Christ.

If it is true that the sharing of these titles means that Jesus is in fact the LORD God Himself, then it should stand to reason that nobody else could have these titles applied to them, since there is only one God. Let us see what the scriptures reveal:

Redeemer

"So I thought to inform you, saying, 'Buy it before those who are sitting here, and before the elders of my people. If you will redeem it, redeem it; but if not, tell me that I may know; for there is no one but you to redeem it, and I am after you.' And he said, 'I will redeem it.'" - Ruth 4:4 (NASB)

In this verse, Boaz is discussing with Naomi's near kinsman who would redeem her land and marry her daughter-in-law, Ruth. The near kinsman rejected the deal, and so Boaz became Ruth's redeemer.

Savior

"Therefore you gave them into the hand of their enemies, who made them suffer. And in the time of their suffering they cried out to you and you heard them from heaven, and according to your great mercies you gave them saviors who saved them from the hand of their enemies." - Nehemiah 9:27 (ESV)

[See also Obadiah 21]

As seen in the book of Judges, Israel would often rebel against God, causing Him to oppress them with their enemies. Upon their repentance, God would send them a savior, that is, an individual from among Israel who would destroy the oppressor and save Israel.

[e.g. Judges 3.9,15 - Othniel and Ehud were both "saviors."]

"God"

"Then YAHWEH said to Moses, 'See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.'" - Exodus 7:1 (NASB)

"I said, 'You are gods; and all of you are sons of the most High'" - Psalm 82:6 (NASB)

The Hebrew word Elohim, meaning God/god, was applied to the true God (Yahweh), Moses, Israelite judges, kings, and false gods. The word Elohim simply means someone who has great authority and power, and does not only apply to Yahweh.

[See also Exodus 4.16, 21.6, 22.8-9]

Shepherd

"Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, 'Thus says the Lord YAHWEH, Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flock?'" - Ezekiel 34:2 (NASB)

"I will set shepherds over them who will care for them, and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall any be missing, declares the LORD." - Jeremiah 23:4 (ESV)

God spoke to the shepherds of Israel, even though He was the Shepherd of Israel. Moreover, during the millennium God will set up shepherds to feed His flock. These are the saints who are ruling and reigning with Christ.

Lord

"So Sarah laughed to herself, saying, 'After I am worn out, and my lord is old, shall I have pleasure?'" - Genesis 18:12 (ESV)

"The LORD says to my lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.'" - Psalm 110:1

Many people in the Bible are referred to as lord. It is simply a term of respect, much like calling a man "sir" today. David tells us that the LORD (YAHWEH) prophetically told David's lord (adoni/the lord Messiah) to sit at His right hand.

Adoni is a Hebrew word translated "lord" and refers all 195 times to a human or angelic [i.e. NON-DEITY] superior.

It never refers to YAHWEH.

This Old Testament scripture [Psalm 110.1] is quoted in the New Testament more than any other and is crucial to our understanding of Christ's relationship to God. Although David was king, he recognized that the future Messiah would be his superior and would sit at God's right hand. David never imagined that the Messiah would be a second GOD, making two GODS!

King of kings

"You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory," - Daniel 2:37 (ESV) [See also Ezekiel 26.7, Ezra 7.12]

Daniel calls Nebuchadnezzar the king of kings. Daniel was not confusing him with Yahweh, but merely acknowledged the fact that human beings can share God's titles in certain situations. Moreover we see that, although he was considered "king of kings", his authority was a derived authority: it came from God Almighty who is the ultimate King of Kings.

Judge

"For YAHWEH is our judge; YAHWEH is our lawgiver; YAHWEH is our king; he will save us." - Isaiah 33:22 (ESV)

"When YAHWEH raised up judges for them, YAHWEH was with the judge and delivered them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for YAHWEH was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who oppressed and afflicted them." - Judges 2:18 (NASB)

Ultimately, Yahweh is the Judge. Nevertheless, He raised up human judges and He was with them in their judgments. Paul said that there is coming a day when God will judge the world "by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead." [Acts 17.31]

This is an example of agency, which is the way in which God, ever since the fall of man, has interacted with humanity. The saints too are destined to judge the world (1 Cor. 6.2)

One can also see the concept of agency in the New Testament between Christ and his followers: "As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" And he said, "Who are you, lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting" - Acts 9:3-5 (NASB)

Saul was not chasing Jesus around trying to arrest him. He was in fact, persecuting the followers of Jesus. However, because the church is the body of Christ, they are his agents or ambassadors, and so to persecute them is to persecute Christ himself.

" 'When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?' The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of mine, even the least of them, you did it to me.'" Matthew 25:39-40 (NASB)

In Biblical language, to do something to a Christian is to do something to Jesus. This does not, however, make the church identical to Jesus or Jesus identical to the church.

We also see titles shared by Christ and the church:

"Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, 'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.'" - John 8:12 (ESV)

"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden." - Matthew 5:14 (ESV)

Either Jesus was extremely confused as to who he was and who we are, or he both acknowledged and used the concept of agency.

The fact that men and angels can bear the name and titles of God is well attested to in the Scriptures, as is the fact that Christians can function as agents of Jesus Christ.

The principle of agency is critical for a right understanding of who Jesus is in relation to the One God (see Raymond James Essoe's "Shaliah: An Introduction to the Law of Agency" ).

As a former Oneness believer, I can appreciate the force of the shared titles argument. However, the argument falls flat when we see these same titles applied to other men.

It should be fully expected that the Messiah, the special human agent whom God would use to redeem His creation, the one who fully represents and speaks for God, who is His very word and image, would bear all of these divine titles. Indeed Jesus is our Redeemer, our Saviour, God (in a Messianic sense). He is our Shepherd, our Lord, and our King. He is all of these things because this uniquely exalted position has been conferred on him by God:

"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth." - Matthew 28:18

Taken from: http://www.focusonthekingdom.org/146.pdf

WHY?

WHY?

Why Remove Comments If They Can Be Refuted?

 

 

In the last month, I came across two blog sites by two different Oneness believers who were sharing their beliefs.

I did what I thought was the right and polite thing to do, that is, respond to their posts; in addressing some of the erroneous assertions made, in light of their Oneness teaching.
Their response? They deleted my comments! Now that's not very nice! Is it?
Oh well, it is the blog administrator's choice. :-)

However, for those of you who are truth-seekers, what follows are my responses which were deleted. I hope and pray that they may be of some edification to the reader.

 

Now, the only real difference between Oneness & Trinitarian doctrines are:

• Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Son," the second person of the Godhead
• whilst Oneness believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Father"
• Both believe that Jesus has a dual nature i.e. a human & divine nature
• Both believe that Jesus is 100% God & 100% man - the Godman
• So, in light of the above, both doctrines are indeed erroneous!

---

 

What follows is a synopsis of the posts by both writers which I came across.

Their points will be in green, whilst my responses will be in black:

ONENESS BELIEVER 1

The first writer was writing about Naomi and Ruth from the Book of Ruth; especially

Ruth's remark that:

"Your God Will Be My God!"

"But Ruth replied, Don't ask me to leave you and

turn back.  Wherever you go, I will go; wherever you

live, I will live.  Your people will be my people, and

your God will be my God."

(Ruth 1:16)

 

 

The writer then expounded on the wonderful character of Ruth; and her wonderful choice to belong to Naomi's people and to worship Naomi's God. AMEN!!

As the writer's post continued, the writer sadly made the following statements:

There are a world of Ruth's ready to be loved, ready to hear about the One true God, Jesus Christ our Lord ...

There is only ONE God and His name is Jesus Christ.  There is only ONE God who died and shed His blood for all mankind; His name is Jesus Christ.  There is only ONE God who rose the third day after death; His name is Jesus Christ. ...

 

In light of the above, I chose to respond with the following (extract from my) remarks which were all subsequently deleted :-

 

MY RESPONSE:

Greetings ***

Compare Ruth's wondrous words,
"your God will be my God"
with what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ declared:
John 20.17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;
and to my God, and your God.

Did you see that?

Jesus is about to ascend to the very same GOD
which his great-great-great ... grandmother came to believe in!!

You state "the One true God, Jesus Christ our Lord";
but with all due respect,
look again to whom Jesus declared is the only true GOD:
(John 17:1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, ...
(John 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus identified his Father
as the only true GOD & the only GOD
[John 17.3, 5.44]

Jesus worshiped the very same GOD that both Naomi and David worshiped;
and teaches us to worship that very same GOD,
namely the Father.
[John 4.22-24]

Jesus therefore is not the true GOD,
rather ...

(1 Thess. 1:9-10) For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you,
and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

(1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;

... Jesus is the human Son of the living and true GOD.

 

---

 

ONENESS BELIEVER 2

The second writer actually quoted my first response in full!! (Although the writer did not include the links I added from my own blog).

My first response was in answer to the question,

 

Oneness or Trinity: Which is it?

whereby I answered

 

NEITHER!

(My first response is quoted in full, in the Oneness writer's response below.)

 

The Oneness writer then replied with eight points.

So I in kind, responded to the writer's eight points. Alas! My entire response was deleted.

What follows therefore is

the second writer's points in green, whilst my response is in black:

 

 

Jesus: God Almighty or Just An Anointed Man?

I recently received a comment ... and would like to share the comment and my response with everyone.  This is a great discussion and I think it is very important that we understand what we believe.  As our belief in One God has been challenged as pagan and not being scriptural, I’d like to share a few notes on why I believe what I do and why Jesus is undeniably God.

 

Here’s the post one of our readers shared:

 

Greetings ***

Oneness or Trinity: Which is it?

Answer: NEITHER!!

Sadly, both Oneness and trinity doctrines try to make Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah our Lord, into Almighty GOD!!

And both doctrines state that you must believe that the Lord Jesus is Almighty GOD to be saved!!

In this regard, both doctrines do err and are scripturally wrong.

IMHO!

 

Both doctrines appeared hundreds of years after the ascension of Christ. Both doctrines try to explain how Jesus can be
both God and man at the same time!! The Godman!!

But the original faith which was once delivered unto the saints [Jude 3] did not suffer from this problem.

 

The original faith has always been
that there is solely ONE GOD,

the Father.

And Jesus of Nazareth, is the one man, the one human being

whom Almighty GOD raised from the dead,

made him, both Lord and Christ,

and exalted him to His right hand.

Hence, Jesus of Nazareth is the Lord Jesus Christ,

a man approved of Almighty GOD, who is currently at the right hand of the ONE GOD in the heavens.
Whom we await for his return.

(1 Cor 8:4) ... there is none other God but one.
(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;

(1 Th 1:9-10) For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols

to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus,

which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Hundreds of years after the pure, true, apostolic faith was propagated;
Greek, Hellenistic and pagan philosophy/doctrines changed the human Jesus

into a demigod then into a godman.
And in response, both the doctrines of the trinity and Oneness tried to solve this self-inflicted problem!

The solution therefore, is to return to the pure faith and doctrine as taught in the Scriptures:

that there is solely ONE GOD, the Father.
And there is solely one man, one human,

whom the ONE GOD has made
"Lord of all", the man Messiah Jesus.

And indeed the day is coming where ...
(Phil 2:11) And that every tongue should confess

that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

Here’s Just a Few Notes On Why I Believe that Jesus is God Almighty, Manifest in the Flesh:

Dear Brother,

I admire your passion and belief in the oneness of God.  I do differ with you, however, in the belief of who that God is.  You see, there can be no doubt that Jesus is the Almighty God incarnate. 

So that you can better understand why I believe this, I’ve jotted down a few questions for you:

1) First, what shall we do with John 8:19? "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." 

2) What shall we do with John 14:7? "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."  Neither you nor I can say the same about our fathers.  If you have seen me, you have not seen my father.  If I have seen you, I might see a man who looks similar to his father but I have not seen your father.  Jesus was trying to explain to his followers who he truly was.

3) What shall we do with the bold statement of Jesus in John 10:30, saying "I and my Father are one."  In this sense, the flesh is terming its Creator as its father.

4) What shall we do with John 14:8-9?  "Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"  Jesus is asking in disbelief.  In essence, he is asking ‘You mean you’ve seen the works that I do and you don’t know that I am Almighty God?’  In the next few verses, Jesus even expounds on the works being done as not having been done by a fleshly person but by deity.  He says, "whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."  Essentially, he is saying, I will perform the miraculous if you call on the name of Jesus because I want you to see that this is God Almighty at work.

5) What shall we do with Isaiah 9:6?  "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."  How is it that this baby Jesus, born in a stable, is called the Everlasting Father and the Mighty God by Isaiah and yet you say that Jesus was just a man and was not God or the Father of Creation?  Hmm, I think your disagreement is not with me or with oneness believers.  It is with Isaiah and Jesus so far.

6) What shall we do with the entire first chapter of John?

Verse 1:  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."  Here, we find that the Word is God the Creator of all things.

Word=God the Creator or Father of Creation

Verse 3: "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."  There isn’t another creator.  The Word is it!

Verse 4: "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."  So the Word is the Light!

Verse 6: We learn here about John the Baptist.  "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.  He was not that Light-"  So John bears witness of the Light-who is the Creator!  Who does John introduce?  Jesus!

Verse 10: The scripture begins describing this Light, who is the Word from verse 1:  "He was in the world, and the world was made by him [Creator], and the world knew him not.  He came unto his own, and his own received him not."  The Creator came to his own-to live amongst his creation-and they rejected him-sounds strangely reminiscent of Calvary, right?

Verse 14: This scripture reveals that the Word, which is the Creator, which is the Light-.is Jesus Christ. 

Word = Creator = Father = Light = Jesus

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Notice, the Word or Almighty God became flesh.  Only by becoming flesh could we see the glory, grace, and truth of who God is.  The term ‘begotten’ is often misunderstood.  Yes, it can mean giving birth to but it also means created by.  The flesh was a created vessel, made specifically for God to indwell.

Verse 18: "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."  Let us understand this passage:

* No one has seen the spirit of God.  Why?  As John 4:24 says, "God is spirit."  Spirits cannot be seen as they lack properties such as flesh and blood.

* Jesus became the vehicle through which we could see God.  He was ‘declared’ by the bodily presence.  Declare does not just mean to state or say something; it also means to "make manifest or visible" or "to reveal."  Check your dictionary!

* Otherwise, if God were not manifest in the flesh, how could Acts 20:28 be true?  The text says that God "hath purchased [the Church] with his own blood."  Where could a spirit get blood from?

7) Moving on in our study here.   What shall we do with John the Baptist’s introduction of Jesus in John 1:30, "This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me."  How could Jesus be before John? 

John’s mother, Elizabeth, was pregnant and gave birth to John before Mary gave birth to Jesus so, physically, John came before Jesus-.but supernaturally, Jesus was before all flesh as the Creator! 

As Jesus stated in John 8:23, "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."  If he was simply a human being-how could he not be of this world.  The word ‘of’ means to come from.

Furthermore, God in the Old Testament was known as the ‘I Am.’  You can see Exodus 3:14 for an example.  Jesus repeatedly identified himself as the ‘I Am’ in the New Testament.

For instance, in John 8:24, Jesus said, "if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

Bible scholars often add "he" after the words "I am" to assist with readability; this is why the word "he" is italicized in these versions.  This means that the original translation would have read, "If ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins."

John 8:28 is another example.  Our versions state "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he."

The words "that" and "he" are italicized, meaning they were added for readability.  What the phrase actually states is "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know I AM."  In essence, when Jesus gave His life on the cross and was ascended up into glory, then they would understand He was God Almighty.

The examples go on and on.  But I would be remiss not to add this conversation between Jesus and the Jews who were asking who he truly was.

In John 8:56-58, Jesus says, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."

Why didn’t Jesus say, "Before Abraham was, I was?"  Because He is eternal God-He always IS!

7) Having discussed John 1, now what shall we do with the prophecies foretelling of Jesus’ birth?  What shall we do with Isaiah 9:6?

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

This infant, born in a stable, is called the Mighty God and the Everlasting Father.  Apparently, those who do not believe that Jesus is the Eternal and Only God are not disagreeing with me or with other oneness believers.  They are simply disagreeing with Isaiah and Jesus himself.  How much simpler can God say it?

8) Final question: What shall we do with 1 Timothy 3:16?

Scholars denote that when Timothy referenced "God," he was certainly speaking of the same God referred to in the Old Testament.

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

That sounds an awful lot like my Jesus!  I’m so glad that I know Him!

Isn’t it time we lifted Him up in praise as the God he truly is and won the lost?

Jesus said, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

* He was lifted up on a cross from the earth once so that His blood could redeem us.

* Now, it’s time to lift Him up with our belief and our praise as God-rather than man-so that our world can be turned upside down and brought back into reconciliation with Him!

MY RESPONSE:

Greetings ***

Thanks for your reply?
Jesus: God Almighty or An Anointed Man?

Well, let's open up with Scripture:

(1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;

There you go!
That's was Paul's (as well as the early church's) confession and belief.

The one mediator between the ONE GOD and mankind, was:
the man ('Christ' meaning 'anointed') Jesus!
So yes, Jesus, scripturally, is most definitely
an anointed man.
That was whom 'the Messiah'
was always (scripturally) meant to be.
And in John 17.3,
Christ Jesus most clearly identifies
the Father as the only true GOD;
and in John 5.44 he identifies
the Father as the only GOD.

Also, you forgot in your quote of my post
to include a link I supplied:
60 questions on the Godhead

whereby some of your questions were already addressed!!

Let's proceed:


1) First, what shall we do with John 8:19?
Answer: Read the context!
John 8.15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true:
for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. 19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Jesus clearly states he is not alone. He also quotes the Scriptures which speak of TWO witnesses.
Then Jesus clearly states:
that he is one witness and
his Father is the other witness!
That makes TWO!
One man and ONE GOD.
(Compare 1 Tim 2.5)

If they had known Jesus, why would they have known the Father also? Because:
Matt 11.27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The Son of GOD is the revealer of the ONE GOD, the Father.


2) What shall we do with John 14:7?
Answer: Colossians 1.15
Jesus is the Image of the invisible GOD.
Seeing that Jesus is the One, Invisible GOD's
Representative and Agent;
to see Christ in action is to see
the Invisible GOD in action
who is working through him.
[John 14.10, Acts 2.22, 10.38]

Jesus, is the ONE, Invisible GOD's
Ultimate Representative and Agent,
the express image of GOD's person/substance.
[Heb 1.3; cp. 2 Cor. 4.4]

So to see Jesus is to see the Father,
because Christ is His image.
However, an image of someone/something is not identical to the person or thing it represents - rather an image is a representation.

Also Christ's followers knew the difference between GOD and man;
besides GOD is not a man
[Num 23.19; see also John 4.24]

3) What shall we do with the bold statement of Jesus in John 10:30, saying "I and my Father are one."
(This is already addressed by point No. 52, in the above link)

Answer: We compare it with Christ's bold prayer concerning his disciples/followers in
John Chapter 17.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world,
and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,
that they may be one, as we are.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So just as Christ and his Father are 'one'; he prays for the same 'oneness' concerning his followers
i.e. oneness in unity of will and purpose.


4) What shall we do with John 14:8-9?
(Addressed by point No. 9, in the above link)

Jesus rather in essence, is asking:
"You mean you've seen the works that
my Father does
(verse 10: the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works);

and you don't realize who I am? Have you not yet realized that I am indeed in the Father, and the Father dwells in me?
Have you not realized that all the words I speak
I have not spoken them of myself, but the Father has given me what to speak?
(Compare Deut 18.18-19; John 12.48-50)

Therefore the very works testify that I am who I have always claimed to be:
the Messiah, the Son of GOD!
And as such, I truly declare/reveal/show the Father;
to see me 'work' is in fact,
to see the ONE GOD, the Father,
who dwells in me, 'work'!
In essence therefore, to see me,
is to see the Father;
because as His Son,
the Father dwells in me and I in Him!!
In doing so, I am showing you the Father."


No talk of 'flesh' or such like here.
Rather GOD dwells in him, and GOD testifies by His works,
that Jesus is indeed His Son,
the promised Messiah and Prophet,
as promised in the Scriptures.


5) What shall we do with Isaiah 9:6?
(Addressed by point No. 15, in the above link)

See also Isaiah 9.6

6) What shall we do with the entire first chapter of John?
What is John's context?

Answer: The word of GOD!
That is, all things came into existence through the word of GOD.
GOD spoke and IT was done!

Compare Psalm 33.6 By the word of YAHWEH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. ... 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

John is stating the very same thing.
The new revelation however is the fact that
(John 1.14);
that same word of GOD was made flesh
resulting in the conception of
Jesus the Messiah, the Son of GOD.
Jesus, therefore, is what the word of GOD became!
The word of GOD made flesh!

Yes, that word, that 'light' - became flesh
resulting in the person of Jesus of Nazareth,
the Son of GOD.

That doesn't make Jesus, the Creator;
rather that makes him,
the word of the Creator made flesh!

Even Jesus acknowledged that his Father is the Creator:
[Mark 10.6, 13.19; Matt. 19:4];

So, yes, GOD's [spoken] word became flesh; not GOD Himself!

Rather the Creator's/Father's
Word/Light became flesh
which = Jesus;
Jesus is therefore what the Creator's word/light became!

Now we ought to believe Gabriel
(There are consequences for not believing him
i.e. Luke 1.17ff)

Gabriel declared: Luke 1.35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born [begotten] of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Who was begotten by the power of
GOD's holy spirit? Jesus!
So according to Gabriel, what does that make Jesus?
The Son of GOD.

Gabriel is not speaking about 'flesh' -
Gabriel is rather speaking about a 'son' ... a special Son.
Therefore the man Jesus, the son of GOD;
is a created vessel, whereby the ONE GOD, dwells!

Hence: 2 Cor 5.19
GOD was in Christ
(Not GOD was Christ)
Also Col 1.19
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.

Again, Jesus in light of John 1.18,
is the image of the invisible GOD;
and an image of a thing is not the actual thing itself - it is a representation.

See also John 1

(Acts 20.28 - see point 59 in the aforementioned link)


7a) ... What shall we do with John the Baptist’s introduction of Jesus in
John 1:30, ... How could Jesus be before John?

Because Jesus is the Messiah, he is therefore
before John in the sense of preeminence and foreordination;
GOD foreordained Jesus before the foundation of the world
[1 Pet 1.20]
to be the Son of GOD.
As such Jesus is John's (as well as our) superior.
It is in that sense that he was preferred before John as well as
preferred before Abraham i.e. John 8.58

7b)... If he was simply a human being - how could he not be of this world.

In the same manner that Christ's disciples are not of the world?
What, are his disciples not human beings!!
John 15.19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

7c) Concerning John 8.58

Please see:
Is Jesus the "I AM?"

Did Jesus really claim to be God in John 8:58? Or is your translation misleading you?

Now look again at John 8.24.
If has you are implying that Jesus declared that he was the ‘I Am’ in the sense of Exodus 3.14; that is, he was Almighty GOD;
and unless one believes that, one will die in their sins!
Then why would his audience then ask ...
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou?

You claim, that Jesus is telling them, that he is 'GOD Almighty';
then why ask, Who are you?
That doesn't make any sense, does it? Be honest!

Now look at Jesus' reply?
... And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

Now I ask you: where did Jesus ever say from the beginning of the gospel to this point,
that he was GOD Almighty?
Where?


Rather, Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the Son of GOD!
So ... unless one believes that he is the Christ,
the Son of GOD, one will die in their sins.
And indeed after Jesus was lifted up i.e. crucified;
when GOD the Father raised him from the dead, he was declared indeed,
to be the Son of GOD!
Rom. 1.4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

So for example, after Paul had an encounter with the Lord Jesus, what did Paul believe and declare:

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said,
Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.


7d) Having discussed John 1, now what shall we do with the prophecies foretelling of Jesus’ birth? What shall we do with Isaiah 9:6?
(See above - also addressed by point No. 15, in the aforementioned link)


8) Final question: What shall we do with 1 Timothy 3:16?
Please view 1 Timothy 3.16

Thank you *** for your reply and thank you for your precious time.


Yours In Messiah

From Oneness to One