Is Jesus Both God and Man? by Sean Finnegan

Is Jesus Both God and Man?

by Sean Finnegan

"…How in the world could Jesus be omnipresent if he couldn't be in two places at once?" I asked. "How could he be omniscient when he says, 'Not even the Son of Man knows the hour of his return?' How could he be omnipotent when the gospels plainly tell us that he was unable to do many miracles in his hometown?"

—Lee Strobel, Case for Christ, p. 158.

In the foyer of our church is a tract that says on its cover "Did Jesus Think He Was God?" Below, I have reproduced the chart found in it, enumerating 11 points as to why Jesus could not be God.

If Jesus is God then…

1. How could he have a beginning (Matthew 1:18; Romans 1:3), since God has always existed (Isaiah 43:13)?
2. How could he keep "increasing in wisdom" (Luke 2:52), since God’s "understanding is infinite" (Psalm 147:5)?
3. Why did he say, "I can do nothing on my own initiative" (John 5:30), whereas God "can do all things" (Job 42:2)?
4. Why did he spend "the whole night in prayer to God" (Luke 6:12), as there is never a time when God prays, but only receives prayer from others?
5. How could he learn obedience and become perfect (Hebrews 5:8 and 9), since God invented obedience and is already perfect (Matthew 5:48)?
6. Why doesn’t he know the day and hour when he will return, and yet his Father, God, does know (Matthew 24:36)?
7. Why didn’t he know who touched him (Mark 5:30), whereas God knows everything (Isaiah 46:10)?
8. How could he be tempted by the devil (Matthew 4:1), yet "God cannot be tempted by evil" (James 1:13)?
9. How could he die (Philippians 2:8), if God "alone possesses immortality" (I Timothy 6:16)?
10. How could he be in subjection to the Father [if he was GOD from and] for all eternity, (I Corinthians 15:28)?
11. Why was he asleep on the cushion (Mark 4:38), yet God never sleeps or slumbers (Psalms 121:4)?

Though these reasons may appear very conclusive to most [biblical] unitarians, they are not by most mainstream Christians. When I speak to orthodox Christians along these lines, the person often responds "You misunderstand the dual nature of Christ." Their reasoning continues, "In his divinity, he is God; but in his humanity, he is man. When he performs miracles, that is a manifestation of his deity. When he suffers or is limited in any way, that is a manifestation of his humanity." Thus, a dual nature proposition is given as the explanation as to why Jesus did not exactly match the attributes recorded of God.

But why is this doctrine necessary? Why do people believe that Jesus is God? The main reason given for why Jesus would be God is that he did things that only God can do – he raised the dead, walked on water, exorcised demons, forgave sins, and lived perfectly. Each of these will be taken in its turn.

• Jesus raised the dead. Jesus raised Lazarus, Jairus’ daughter, and the widow’s son. If raising the dead makes Jesus God, then Elijah, Elisha, and Peter are also God, because they also raised the dead.

• Jesus walked on water. Jesus confessed the source of his miracles when he said, "the Father abiding in me does His works" (John 10:25, 32, 37; 14:10) and, "the son can do nothing of himself" (John 5:19). Jesus walked on the water because God empowered him to do so. (And Peter walked on the water also.)

• Jesus exorcised demons. Often, Jesus came face to face with the spiritual forces of wickedness. He never struggled but cast them out with a few words. However, he is not unique here either, the 12 also cast out demons, as well as the 70. Besides, Jesus clearly stated, "I cast out demons by the spirit of God" (Matthew 12:28). God empowered His Messiah to do these things.

• Jesus forgave sins. When the paralyzed man was brought to Jesus, he said, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven" (Matthew 9:2). It is alleged that since all sins are ultimately an affront to God (Psalms 51:4), that only God can forgive sins. This reasoning is logical, but what if God conferred His right to forgive sins onto His earthly agent–the Messiah. "But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God who had given such authority to men" (Matthew 9:8). Similarly, the disciples of Christ are authorized to forgive or retain sins (cf. John 20:23).

• Jesus lived perfectly. Adam was made in God’s image–perfect. God’s plan was for him to stay sinless, live forever, cultivate the garden of Eden, rule over the earth, and produce many children. Jesus also was made in the image of God (Colossians 3:10). He was divinely created [begotten] (Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:20) in the womb of his mother, Mary; Adam was also divinely made (Genesis 2:7). Thus, Jesus falls in the category of one who began as perfect and who needed to maintain his perfection (i.e. the second Adam)... Because of what Christ has done, we can now mortify the deeds of our old man and live as he lived (Romans 8:10, 13).

One other argument that often surfaces is that if Jesus was not God, then his sacrifice would not have been sufficient to redeem all of humanity. This assertion seems logical on its surface, but there are four problems with it.

1. Nowhere in the Bible is this stated.
2. God cannot die (I Timothy 1:17 says He is immortal).
3. A sacrifice is sufficient because God accepts it, not because its value equals the offense.
4. According to their view, only the body (the humanity) of Jesus died; his spirit (the deity) continued to live. Thus, the God portion of Jesus did not die.

Besides, is it fair to split Jesus in any way? If Jesus were fully God and fully man, then everything Jesus experienced, both his divine and human natures also experienced. For example, if I could ask them, "How can Jesus be God if he doesn’t know everything?" They would respond, "In his humanity he didn’t know, but in his divinity he is omniscient." However, this is impossible. One cannot both know everything and not know everything at the same time! If Jesus had claimed ignorance about his second coming when he was really omniscient, would this not be deceptive? To illustrate this, consider the analogy below.

Fred asked Laura for $5, and she responded, "I don’t have $5." But then 10 minutes later, Fred noticed that she was holding $5 in her hand and questioned her why she had lied. Laura replied, "When I said I didn’t have $5, I meant in my right hand I did not have it; although it is true that in my left hand I do have $5." Would this not be immediately exposed as deception? Either the person has the $5 or not. One cannot both have and not have $5 at the same time.

Jesus always spoke the truth. If he said he did not know something, then all of Jesus did not know it. If he died, then he was not immortal. If he slept on the boat, then he cannot claim to be the God Who never sleeps, etc. All of this confusion can be avoided if we understand Jesus as a human–a sinless man who, like Adam, was directly made by God but, unlike Adam, did not grasp at equality with God. There is nothing complicated about that. Jesus is a real human who really died for our sins. Our entire faith depends on this truth. It is a simple fact: if the whole Jesus did not really die, then the whole of our sins are not really [purged Heb. 1.3].

Thanks be to God who would not leave us in such a predicament.

This article was taken from:

Is Jesus Both God and Man?

AN APPEAL TO ONENESS BELIEVERS - part 2

Again, the only real difference between Oneness & Trinitarian doctrines are:

• Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Son," the second person of the Godhead
• whilst Oneness believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Father"
• Both believe that Jesus has a dual nature i.e. a human & divine nature
• Both believe that Jesus is 100% God & 100% man - the Godman
• So, in light of the above, both doctrines are indeed erroneous

 

What follows is a synopsis of the posts by the second writer.

The second writer's points will be in green, whilst my responses will be in black:

ONENESS BELIEVER 2

I see the Oneness view fitting the bill perfectly ...

 

MY RESPONSE:

 

1 Timothy 2:3-5 :-

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;

That is the truth that GOD wants us to come to the knowledge of:
that there is:
ONE GOD, the Father.
Whilst Messiah Jesus, is His human Son; and is the sole mediator between the ONE GOD and mankind.

Sadly, neither trinity nor Oneness fit the bill, because both doctrines assert that Messiah Jesus is also Almighty GOD!
This is something Scripture never does!!

Not only does the apostle Paul agree with his Lord and Master, Jesus
[John 17.3];
but backs up his statement
in 1 Timothy 2.5, with 1 Cor. 8.4,6.

If Oneness were true, what Paul would have said in 1 Cor 8.6 is
"But to us there is but one God, Jesus!"

But Paul says no such thing because he clearly differentiates GOD and Jesus just as he had done throughout the NT.
The apostle Paul (in alignment with Jesus) identifies the ONE GOD as
the Father.
Then Paul goes on to identify
the one Lord as Jesus the Messiah.

Look again at
Acts 2:34-36:

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself,
The LORD [YAHWEH] said unto my Lord,
Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.

Almighty GOD, the Father, has made the man Jesus who was crucified, both Lord & Christ;
hence "that same Jesus" is now known as "our Lord Jesus Christ"

That honor goes to nobody else. GOD alone has made solely this man, "Lord."
In fulfilment of Psalm 110.1,
YAHWEH said unto my lord.

Therefore, Philippians 2:11: And that every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Therefore, Jesus the Messiah is the one Lord in fulfilment of Psalm 110.1.
Hence, Paul when speaking of things which are "one" states:

Ephesians 4:5-6: One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So, the ONE GOD is the Father.
Whilst, Jesus, His Son,
is the Lord Messiah.
[Col 3.24, Luke 2.11]

 

ONENESS BELIEVER:

 

(1 Cor 8:4) ... there is none other God but one.

(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;

and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Yes you are right that there is One God, the Father of whom and are all things and one Lord, Jesus Christ by whom are all things and we by him. Scriptures teach that God made all things through Christ.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Notice the similarity of the usage of 'by whom’ in 1 Corin 8:6 & Heb 1:2. So here it is clear that God created the worlds through Christ His Son who is His image and exact representation. But does this mean that the man Christ Jesus the Son existed as a Son of man or Son of God before he came to earth. No, what the scriptures mean is that everything in this universe was created in perspective or to make way for the Man Christ Jesus who is the image of God, the firstborn over every creation.

At the same time scripture also attributes that all things were made by Him and for Him.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Notice that in the above passage it says that 'by him were all things created' and it also says that 'all things were created by him' so the Deity is One and we cannot discount Christ from the Deity.

 

MY RESPONSE:

 

Back to 1 Cor. 8.6:

GOD is the Creator & source of all things hence of whom are all things.
Whilst the Lord Messiah, His Son, is the reason and the very purpose of all things, seeing that they are his inheritance;
thus, by, or rather, through whom are all things.

Heb 1.2 is not about the Genesis creation; rather it is about the ages which GOD has made in view of His Son;
predominantly the ages to come.
(Cp. Heb 2.5)
The word "worlds" in Heb 1.2 is the Greek word for ages/aeons.

So neither 1 Cor 8.6 nor Heb 1.2 are saying that all things were made BY Jesus. NO!
Rather, the sole Creator, the Father, created all things FOR His (then future) Son, seeing that His Son will be the heir of all things.
[Heb 1.2, Psa 2.8, etc]

Likewise, Col 1.16 has nothing to do with the Genesis creation. The context is actually about the future kingdom. [Col 1.13]
The all things created are thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: - all in the context of
the future kingdom i.e. the new creation to come.
(Note: no mention of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein as one would expect, if the context was the Genesis creation)


Incidentally, the first word "by" in
Col 1.16 is actually the Greek word "EN" which means "in".
The second word "by" is actually the Greek word "DIA" which means "through".
So Col 1.16 is not actually saying that anything was created "BY" Jesus, at all!

The verse actually says, e.g. NRSV:
for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers-- all things have been created through him and for him.
Also ASV.

See also COLOSSIANS 1:15-20 - PREEXISTENCE OR PREEMINENCE?

ONENESS BELIEVER:

Once we understand the plan of God can we understand why the man Christ Jesus was subject to God Almighty?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The passage is a quote from Psalms 8

I would like to elaborate the passage more widely here as the passage says that Jesus was made little lower than the angels ...
Oneness fits the bill here perfectly as Jesus was made lower than Elohiym for the sake of suffering. There are more passages which teach this as we read on in Hebrews

...
We also cannot deny the fact that when in the flesh He was subject to God and became mortal man and hence we have scriptures showing His subjection to God the Father completely

Php 2:6-8
Here we have scripture confirming that being in the form of God, he was equal to God (This was before He came to earth as a man)

 

MY RESPONSE:

 

By the way, Psalm 8 is about mankind
[verse 4] which were made little lower than the angels [verse 5].
Beginning with Adam, GOD made man to have dominion over the works of His hands.
Jesus, the last Adam, therefore was a man

[Acts 2.22, John 8.40, 1 Tim 2.5];

which GOD Almighty is not!
[Num 23.19, Job 9.32]

Seeing therefore that Jesus is a man and not GOD, Jesus will forever be subject to the ONE GOD, his Father.

On the subject of complete subjection:
(1 Cor 15:27-28) For he [GOD] hath put all things under his [the Son's] feet. But when he [GOD] saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted [GOD is not included], which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [GOD the Father] that put all things under him,
that God may be all in all.

The ONE GOD is excepted i.e. GOD is not included, GOD is exempt, which did put all things under Jesus the Son.
Again, a clear distinction between the ONE GOD and His subjected Son.

 

You stated concerning Phil 2.6-8,
"Here we have scripture confirming that being in the form of God, he was equal to God (This was before He came to earth as a man)"

Huh!! If Jesus existed as a being who was equal to GOD before he came to earth; that would be two co-equal almighty beings!!
That's trinitarianism, or at least, binitarianism. I thought you were Oneness!?

For a better exposition of Phil 2.6-8, please see: Adam Christology, Pre-existence & The Philippian Hymn

ONENESS BELIEVER:

 

It is important that we understand the mystery of godliness. The person was One and that is God manifesting in the flesh and we know Him as Lord Jesus Christ and Thomas was not ashamed to call him 'My Lord and My God' as we cannot know God beyond Christ.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

He is not a Godman as Trinitarians say but God manifested in the flesh.
When we read in Revelation Chapter 1 the one that spoke with John was Christ who claimed He was the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last and no man can claim this claim as Almighty God apart from Christ.

Re 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: ...

Re 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; , and, behold I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

The Sad fact is that those who do not believe that Jesus is He as he said "I am He" will die in his sins.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

You can't discount such claims, can you?

De 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

 

MY RESPONSE:

 

Thomas, called Jesus,
"My Lord and My God!" Amen.
For an explanation please see, Jesus is God

 

As for 1 Tim. 3.16, sadly, this verse is not as clear cut as one would first believe. In fact, Jesus is not in Scripture portrayed as a Godman at all!!
Please see Concerning 1 Tim 3.16

Now, GOD alone has immortality.
[1 Tim 6.16]
That means He cannot die!
GOD CANNOT DIE!!

So Rev 1.11,17-18 is indeed speaking of Jesus as the first and the last; but obviously, in a difficult context, to when this title is used in regards to GOD Almighty. [Isa 44.6, 48.12]
(Remember, GOD Almighty cannot die;
whilst Jesus is: he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore.)

 

Also throughout the Bible, there is the Hebrew concept of "Agency"- whereby the sent acts as the agent of the sender - and in doing so, the sent is treated as if the sent is actually the sender.
That is, although the two are distinct, the sent agent is treated as if he is identical to the sender. - For more info on this concept please see Divine Agency in the Scriptures.

 

The above link will show many examples of this concept. Therefore, in similar fashion, when Jesus says, "I am the first and the last", he does not mean that he is actually Almighty GOD. Instead,

Jesus means that he is the agent of Almighty GOD - he is speaking for the immortal GOD.

 

Concerning John 8.24, read the very next verse.

John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them,
Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

Two things:

1) If Jesus was claiming to be Almighty GOD in verse 24, as you assert. Why would the people then ask in the very next verse, "Who are you?"
It ought to be obvious, if Jesus apparently just claimed to be GOD!!

2) Now note Jesus' response in verse 25.
My question: Where did Jesus anywhere in the Gospels, from the beginning of his ministry right up to John 8.25, ever claim to be GOD Almighty? WHERE??
Remember, he said, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

Rather, Jesus claimed to be GOD's Son, the light of the world, the one promised to be sent by GOD, the one spoken of by Moses, etc.
And unless someone believes Jesus is, who he claimed to be, that is, the Messiah; such a one will die in their sins.

So, Jesus never ever claimed to be Almighty GOD from the beginning!!

 

ONENESS BELIEVER:

 

Moreover we have this testimony that there was a need for the 'testator' to die. It doesn't make sense that God creates a man to die for us. This is no love at all but the love of God is manifested in that He took the form of man and humbled Himself to bring many sons to glory. This is the clear teaching of the scriptures.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

 

MY RESPONSE:

 

Concerning Heb 9.16-17 (testament/covenant - same Greek word):

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 7:21  (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord [GOD ALMIGHTY] sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.


Hebrews 9:11-24:

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


Therefore, the testator did indeed die? Who then is the testator?
The man Jesus, the sole mediator of the new covenant/testament; the one whom the living GOD appointed forever an high priest.

(A priest cannot be identical to the One he ministers to!
High Priests are taken from among men and minister the things pertaining to God
- Hebrews 2.17, 5.1.
Jesus is called of GOD to be an High Priest forever!
[Hebrews 5.1,5,10]
He cannot therefore himself be the living GOD).

After GOD Almighty raised the dead Jesus, from the dead, what happened next?
Jesus entered into Heaven itself, into the very presence of the ONE GOD Himself.

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

So Jesus is the Son of GOD who is now in the presence of GOD.
It is that simple.

 

ONENESS BELIEVER:

 

Paul identified Christ as 'that Spirit'. You have to deny all these scriptures to make a straw man argument showing Christ as a created being rather than God manifesting in flesh.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

MY RESPONSE:

Concerning 2 Cor 3.14, Christ as 'that Spirit'. Amen!
The apostle Paul is contrasting Moses, who had a veil upon his face; with Christ, in whom the veil, which blinds people today, can be done away. Amen!!
So if one turns to the Lord Jesus, the veil shall be taken away. Amen!
Thus, ...
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


So,  ...

Jesus of Nazareth, is the virginally begotten, sinless, human,
son of the ONE GOD,
who began his existence in the womb of his mother [Luke 1.35];
He grew in the grace & the wisdom of the ONE GOD. [Luke 2.40]
He died for our sins. After three days, GOD Almighty, the ONE GOD, raised him from the dead, immortalized & highly exalted him,
made him 'Lord', and set him at His own right hand.
Therefore, Jesus is a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. [Hebrews 6.20, 8.1]
Jesus is now in Heaven itself, in the very presence of the ONE GOD Himself.

It is that simple!
ONE GOD, the Father.
The man, the Lord Jesus Christ,
is His Son, i.e.
the Son of the Father.
[2 John 3]

This scriptural definition fits the bill perfectly!

Jesus is a glorified man at the right hand of the ONE GOD;
the day will come when Almighty GOD will send Jesus back to earth, to establish the Kingdom at his Coming.
[Acts 3.19-20]

Hence the Apostle Paul's words:

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and
how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,
even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the living and true GOD! Amen!

AN APPEAL TO ONENESS BELIEVERS - part 1

I came across some posts by two different Oneness believers who were sharing their beliefs.

Now, the only real difference between Oneness & Trinitarian doctrines are:

• Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Son," the second person of the Godhead
• whilst Oneness believe that Jesus Christ is the incarnation of "God the Father"
• Both believe that Jesus has a dual nature i.e. a human & divine nature
• Both believe that Jesus is 100% God & 100% man - the Godman
• So, in light of the above, both doctrines are indeed erroneous

What follows is a synopsis of the posts by both writers which I came across.

Their points will be in green, whilst my responses will be in black:

ONENESS BELIEVER 1

The first writer was attempting to reconcile the many NT statements which speak about grace & peace being from BOTH God the Father AND the His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ;
these verses are obviously speaking about TWO distinct, individual beings.
Thus the writer then attempts to reconcile these statements with Oneness theology :-

"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ:
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 1:1)

This scripture is just an example of what I am trying to explain because every book after the book of Acts in the Bible has an introduction such as this ... that states something along these lines,
"Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." ...
 according to John 10:30,"I and my Father are one." thus giving me the conclusion that Jesus, who was talking to his disciples, is the same as the Father, thus they are ONE; NOT TWO SEPARATE BEINGS.

 

MY RESPONSE:

I suggest you take another look at John 10.30
Then compare it with John 17.11,21-22.
Jesus was not stating that he was the same as the Father.
Otherwise, you would have to conclude that his disciples are the same as the Father!! Why?

John 17.11 ... that they may be one, as we are.
John 17.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

No! Just as the disciples are separate beings from the Father (and Christ); likewise Christ is separate from GOD his Father.
Jesus is 'One' with the Father in unity, in will & purpose. Jesus prayed that his disciples would be likewise.

The reason therefore, why "every book after the book of Acts in the Bible has an introduction such as this;" is because:
GOD our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are indeed TWO SEPARATE BEINGS!!
However, ONE is Almighty GOD whilst the other is NOT!

That is, there is solely ONE GOD, the Father.
[1 Cor 8.4,6]
The Lord Jesus the Messiah identified his Father as the only true GOD.
[John 17.3]

The man Christ Jesus in contrast is the one mediator between the ONE GOD and mankind.
Thus 1 Tim 2.5 clearly shows the distinction between these TWO SEPARATE BEINGS!!
ONE is GOD, the Father; whilst the other, is the man Christ Jesus; hence:

(1 Cor 8:4) ... that there is none other God but one.
(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father,
of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord, Jesus Christ,
by whom are all things, and we by him.

(John 17:1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, ...
(John 17:3) And this is life eternal,
that they might know thee the only true God,
and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Hence when Jesus quoted Deut 6.4 as the greatest commandment before a Jewish scribe (Mark 12.29ff); it ought to be obvious that Jesus was not identifying himself as the ONE GOD; and neither did the scribe think that either!
Rather, they both agreed that their GOD was the ONE GOD we ought to love! (Compare John 4.22)
Jesus also commended the scribe's response. [Mark 12.34]

So before Jesus ascended into Heaven, he declared:
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Then Hebrews 9.24 declares: For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true;
but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

And whilst in Heaven, Jesus declared: Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,
and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem,
which cometh down out of heaven from my God: ...

And Paul speaking about Christ's return, declared: 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10
For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you,
and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus,
which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The distinction and separation of these Two Beings is consistent throughout all the NT scriptures.
There is solely ONE GOD, the Father, the only true GOD.

Whilst the man Jesus of Nazareth is the one man whom the ONE GOD made both Lord and Christ;
hence he is the One Lord [Acts 2.36, 1 Cor 8.6, Eph 4.5]

YAHWEH in contrast is the One God and Father of all.
[Eph 4.6]

Hence, Phil 2.10-11:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Again, clear distinction and separation:
ONE Being is Almighty GOD whilst the other being is not!

ONENESS BELIEVER:

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power" (1 Corinthians 2:2-5)

I want to make it clear. JESUS is GOD. (No distinctions of persons and no pluralities)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

That Word being Jesus and that Jesus being God
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Ephesians 4:5-6)

There is only ONE LORD, ONE FAITH AND ONE BAPTISM. ONE God and Father of all. Jesus Christ is LORD!!!!

 

MY RESPONSE:

Indeed there is solely ONE GOD - (No distinctions of persons and no pluralities)

And who is this ONE GOD?

(John 17:1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, ...
(John 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

(1 Cor 8:4) ... that there is none other God but one.
(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, ...

Jesus, our Lord and Master, identifies the Father, his Father, as the only true GOD.
And the Apostles concur with Jesus their Lord.

So then, who is Jesus?

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee,
but my Father which is in heaven.

(1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;

It is that simple! There is solely ONE GOD, the Father.
Jesus is the ONE GOD's human Son;
who was crucified, died for our sins;
whom Almighty GOD raised from the dead, highly exalted him,
and made him both Lord and Christ
[Acts 2.36]
to the ONE GOD's glory.
[Phil 2.11]

So the Father is the LORD GOD;
whilst His Son is the Lord Messiah
[Col 3.24, Luke 2.11]

GOD Almighty alone has immortality.
[1 Tim 6.16]
That means He cannot die! GOD CANNOT DIE!! Much less be crucified.
Rather, it was Jesus the Messiah, crucified,
who the apostle Paul desired to know? 1 Cor 2.2
And how did Paul identify Jesus?
Look again at 1 Tim 2.5

Also:
Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. 20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. 21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? 22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus,
proving that this is very Christ.


Wow! Paul does NOT straightway go about preaching that Jesus is GOD!! Even after having an amazing encounter with him!!
Rather, straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God!!

Even after some time, maybe even months or years, what does Paul say?

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription,
TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein,
seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth,
(cp. Matt 11.25, Luke 10.21)
dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness
by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

That man! That Man! That MAN!
That MAN whom GOD, the Creator and Lord of heaven and earth, hath ordained and raised from the dead!!

The apostle Paul does not identify Jesus as the UNKNOWN GOD! He does not declare to the Athenians that Jesus is the God that made the world and all things therein.
Rather, he declares to the Athenians: that man whom GOD raised from the dead; GOD has ordained this man to be the Judge. (Compare the apostle Peter's consistent message in Acts 10.38-43)

These words are entirely consistent to what the apostle Paul said in 1 Cor 8.4,6; & 1 Timothy 2.5.

So yes, the ONE GOD, the Father, is identified in Eph. 4.6; whilst the one man whom the ONE GOD made Lord is identified in Eph 4.5. Hence Jesus is the one Lord.

The ONE GOD is still (and will always be) the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[2 Cor 11.31, Eph 1.3, Col 1.3, 1 Pet 1.3]

Compare (John 20:17) ... I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
with Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The Lord Jesus has a GOD! If he has a GOD, then it means he himself is NOT GOD!

There can only be ONE GOD!!! And that ONE GOD cannot therefore be Jesus (seeing that Jesus has a God)!
Rather, the ONE GOD is Jesus' Father; and the ONE GOD is also his (Jesus') GOD!!

Therefore, John 1.1 is about GOD's word!!
(Jesus is not even mentioned!!)

Everything came into being by GOD's word; that is, GOD spoke and IT was done.

Compare Psalms 33:6 By the word of YAHWEH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 9 For he spake, and it was done ; he commanded, and it stood fast.

In the fulness of time [Gal 4.4] therefore, GOD's word was made flesh [John 1.14]
resulting in the conception of Jesus of Nazareth, GOD's Son. [Luke 1.35]

So who is Jesus? He is GOD's word made flesh. Amen!! That's what the apostle John is declaring.
In fact, what was the purpose of the apostle John's Gospel?

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Let me conclude with the words of the apostle Paul:

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Again, the apostle Paul is consistent with his understanding of who GOD and Jesus is.

There is solely ONE living and true God!
Whilst, Jesus is the ONE living and true GOD's Son, whom the ONE GOD raised from the dead!

This is the true Apostles' doctrine from the Scriptures, concerning who GOD and Jesus is.

ONE GOD, the Father.
ONE man, the Lord Jesus the Messiah,
the Son of the Father.
[2 John 3]

Responding to Jesus

Responding to Jesus

It appears to us that very little attention is paid in church circles to how Jesus preached the Gospel. Radio waves and popular literature are replete with invitations to “accept Jesus in your heart,” to “accept the Lord,” or “pray the sinners’ prayer.” But how did Jesus make his evangelistic offer of salvation?

It is a shocking fact that he did not begin and end by offering his death as atonement for sins. Certainly the death of Jesus and his resurrection are fundamental elements in the Gospel of salvation. But that is not all. Listen to the master teacher in his final evangelistic statement and appeal.

John 12: 44: “Jesus raised his voice and said, ‘The person who believes in me does not just believe in me but in the one who commissioned me. I came into the world as a light so that everyone who believes in me should not remain in darkness. And if someone hears my message and does not respond to it, I do not judge him: I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who refuses to listen to me and will not receive my words has one who judges him. The word which I spoke — that is what will judge him at the last day, because I did not speak from myself, but the Father who sent me, He gave me a command as to what to say and speak. And I know that His command means eternal life…’”

It is perfectly plain from these climactic words of Jesus that our salvation depends on believing in Jesus: “The one who believes in me does not just believe in me but in the one who commissioned me.” But Jesus clarifies what he means by “believing in” him. This fact is mostly overlooked by Bible readers. Jesus goes on by way of explanation: “If someone hears my message/gospel/word and does not respond to it…” So, then, what Jesus demands for salvation is a response to his preaching. The crucial factor is intelligent, positive reaction to what Jesus said, not just to the facts of his death and resurrection. Jesus repeats this vital point with a different phrase: “The one who refuses to listen to me and will not accept my words…will be judged by my message.”

We have here a brilliant summary from John, who personally witnessed the ministry of Jesus, and understood what is involved in salvation. Jesus states, as he constantly did, that he came to save the world. But how is the world to be saved? By listening to and accepting Jesus’ word or words. Those who fail to respond to his word and words do not become disciples of the Lord Jesus.

It is a matter of concern and alarm that in current preaching nothing is made of the word/ words/message of Jesus. Only his death and resurrection are put to the public for belief.

But this is to cut the Gospel in half. The fact is that there are [30] chapters of recorded Gospel preaching by Jesus, the twelve and the seventy in which there is no mention yet of his death and resurrection. The Gospel preaching of Jesus, his word/words/message, centered entirely and exclusively on the matter of the Kingdom of God. An examination of Matthew, Mark and Luke shows that Jesus preached as Gospel much more than a message about his death and resurrection. The statistics look like this:

There are [30] chapters of Gospel preaching (Matt. 3-15; Mark 1-7; Luke 4-8), during which Jesus and the Apostles take the Gospel to the public. But in these [30] chapters there is not a single word said of his death. It was not until Matthew 16, Mark 8 and Luke 9 that Jesus “began to tell them” about his death and resurrection. But note well: the accounts make it quite clear that he had been preaching the Gospel prior to that moment. It follows, then, that the Gospel is firstly about the Kingdom of God and also about the additional facts of Jesus’ death and resurrection.

Why is this so important? We have seen above (and the point is repeated throughout the teaching of the whole New Testament) that salvation comes by response to what Jesus said and taught, not just to what he did on the cross. Jesus raised his voice in John 12:44 to insist on this central truth: “He who refuses to listen to my words…He who does not accept what I say…” remains lost in darkness.

Professions of belief in Jesus are hollow until we allow Jesus and the Bible to define what it means to “believe in” him. The most personal and intimate aspect of Jesus is his words. His words declare his mind. So it is through intelligent acceptance of his words that a relationship is made with him, in addition to acceptance of his sacrificial death. Jesus did much more than die. He was a saving teacher as well as being the crucified, risen Savior.

Bible readers should earnestly question the foundation of their belief system and ask what those “cliché-like” phrases such as “accept the Lord,” “open your heart to Jesus” really mean.

The true disciples of the Bible are those who have “listened to” Jesus’ Kingdom Gospel. They are those who have received the words which God has given through Jesus. Jesus reported to God: “the words which you gave me, I have given to them and they have accepted them” (John 17:8). The born-again sons of God are those who receive Jesus by “believing in his name,” that is, everything he revealed in his preaching and teaching as well as his death and resurrection (John 1:12).

How wonderfully united the Bible writers were on this crucial issue of what it means to “accept Jesus as Savior.” Matthew and Luke record Jesus’ precious words about how the Gospel of the Kingdom is received or refused by various ones who are exposed to it. “When anyone hears the word/Gospel about the Kingdom and does not understand it, the Devil comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart, so that he cannot believe it and be saved” (Matt. 13:19; Luke 8:12). This is the essence of the Christian Gospel and how it must be received in faith. The critically important factor in salvation, says Jesus, is intelligent reception of the “word about the Kingdom” (Matt. 13:19).

Since the Devil knows well that this Message of the Kingdom is his greatest threat, he does all he can to remove it and suppress it. On no account does the Devil want the Gospel as Jesus preached it to be heard. The Devil wants the world to remain in darkness. Only the preaching of Jesus can dispel that terrible night of confusion and error.

In Luke 8:12 Jesus said that those who hear his Gospel-word are the objects of the Devil’s attention. The Devil, Jesus said, is bent upon taking that Gospel away from the heart of the potential Christian, “so that he may not believe it [the word/message/gospel of the Kingdom, Matt. 13:19] and be saved.” It is of the highest significance that Jesus is talking here expressly about how to be saved, and yet at this point in his preaching career he has not yet mentioned a word about his death and resurrection! (see Luke 18:31-34).

The evidence is entirely clear. Jesus’ concept of salvation is this: An intelligent reception of his Gospel of the Kingdom as well as the related information about his death and resurrection are essential for the saving process to get underway.

You may ask, “What is the Kingdom of God?” The answer is that it is the hope of all the prophets of Israel. It is the Kingdom which will supersede all present national governments at the time of the resurrection of the dead (Rev. 11:15-18). This is the moment to mention another devastating confusion which has hit some systems of Bible teaching. It is sometimes said that the Kingdoms of this world have already become the Kingdom of God and of His Messiah. This is fundamentally untrue. It is only when the seventh angel sounds the resurrection trumpet to summon the dead from the graves that the rulership of the present world passes fully into the hands of Jesus. Revelation 11:15-18 is an absolutely sure anchor of truth in relation to the Kingdom, the heart of the Gospel.

The Kingdom of God is in fact the heart of the new covenant which Jesus ratified in his blood by dying for the sins of all men. Just as Moses in Exodus 24 rehearsed all the words of the covenant in the presence of the people, and then poured blood on the document containing the covenant and on the people, so Jesus as the ultimate Moses laid out his Kingdom/Gospel/words before the people and then in the presence of those who had accepted it he prepared to pour out his own blood to ratify and seal that new covenant. What specifically is the content of the covenant? Jesus made it more than clear. “Just as my Father covenanted with me to give me the Kingdom, so I now covenant with you to give you the Kingdom, and you will be seated on twelve thrones to administer the tribes of Israel” (Luke 22:29, 30). There is the heart of the Gospel and the heart of the covenant.

Everything Jesus taught focused on the Kingdom and the invitation issued to us all to take part in that Kingdom and in its administration of the world — the world as it will be renewed at the great restoration promised in Acts 3:21: Jesus must be retained in heaven, said Peter, “until the time comes for the restoration of all things as declared by the prophets.”

To that great moment Christians are to look forward in joyful anticipation. The distress of the present time “cannot be compared with the glory which will be revealed in the Sons of God” (Rom. 8:18), immortalized at the resurrection and presented to Jesus as co-heirs and rulers of his coming Kingdom.

This article was taken from:
Responding to Jesus

Fitting the Pieces Together into a Harmonious Whole

Fitting the Pieces Together into a Harmonious Whole

During forty years involvement in the field of biblical studies and teaching, I have noticed that many Christians do not follow the fine example set by the Bereans in Acts 17:11: “They searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying was true; so many of them became Christians.” Many today, however, simply believe what they have been told.

Take the issue of what happens when we die. Ask a typical churchgoer and he will quote the words of Jesus to the [criminal]: “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). This is supposed to settle the question with finality.

But the problem is this: Luke 23:43 is a fraction of the total biblical evidence available for study. Nevertheless many will settle for an easy “solution.” That verse obviously proves, they think, that Jesus and the [criminal] departed at the moment of death into the presence of the Father in heaven. On that basis, churchgoers are exhorted to believe that they too will survive death as “souls” and pass on to celestial regions.

Imagine a conversation between a child and her mother: “Mommy, where did Jesus go the day he died?” “Well, to heaven to be with God, dear. Do you remember he said that he and the thief would be together that day in Paradise?”

“But wait, Mommy, do you remember that Jesus earlier said that he would ‘be three days in the heart of the earth’? If he was in the heart of the earth, how can he have been with the Father in heaven?”

“Well, dear, perhaps Jesus’ spirit was with the Father while his body was in the heart of the earth.”

“But how can that be, Mommy? Three days after the day Jesus died he said to his friends: ‘I (Jesus) have not yet ascended to the Father.’ How could he possibly have gone to heaven to the Father, if three days later he said he had not yet ascended to the Father?”

Mommy’s attempt to answer the difficulty includes an immense and unproven assumption: that in the Bible a person can go on existing consciously as a “spirit” or “soul” separated from their body. For Mommy’s “solution” to be true that assumption must be biblically demonstrated. But the “departed soul” concept owes its origin to Platonic philosophy and not to the Bible at all.

The Interpreter’s Bible Dictionary says correctly: “No biblical text authorizes the idea that the soul separates from the body at death” (Vol. 1, p. 802).

So what is the solution to our question about what happens when we die? First we must lay out the facts:

1) Jesus apparently said that he would be on the day of his death with the [criminal] in the presence of the Father (Luke 23:43).

2) Jesus said with complete clarity that he would be in the heart of the earth when he died and remain there for three days (Matt. 12:40).

3) Peter confirms this by saying that God did not leave Jesus in the world of the dead, Hades (Acts 2:31). This proves that Jesus did indeed go to the world of the dead. But God did not leave him there. He brought him out of the tomb by resurrection three days after he died.

4) When the women arrived at the tomb, the angel said, “He is not here. He has risen from the dead” (Matt. 28:6). This proves that Jesus had indeed been in the tomb until he was resurrected.

5) On the Sunday after his death, Jesus expressly said: “I have not yet ascended to my Father” (John 20:17). So he could not possibly have been to heaven before ... Sunday.

Here is what the evidence presents:

Points 2-5 demonstrate that Jesus went to the grave at his death and that he did not go to the Father in heaven the day he died.

Point 1 alone (the very point which most rely on almost instinctively) appears to contradict the evidence of points 2-5.

How shall we resolve the problem?

The Bible does not contradict itself. If Jesus was in the heart of the earth he cannot have been with the Father in Paradise (the text does not say, as many assume, “heaven”).

Here is the solution which resolves the apparent contradiction.

What Jesus actually said to the [criminal] ... was: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” Punctuating the sentence that way — putting the comma after “today” — makes sense of the immediate context and brings the statement into line with Jesus’ other clear statements that he did not go anywhere other than to the grave that day — the day of his and the [criminal’s] death.

Now we are ready to follow the whole of Jesus’ conversation with the [criminal]:

The [criminal], in a repentant frame of mind, begs Jesus: “Lord, remember me when you come [in the future] bringing in your Kingdom.” His request was to be remembered on the future day of the arrival of Jesus to set up the Kingdom of God, the Christian hope. The [criminal] demonstrated faith in the Gospel: firstly, that the Kingdom of God is coming and secondly that Jesus was the Messiah.

Jesus graciously gave the thief more than he asked. He said: “Truly I assure you today [you don’t have to wait to be remembered in the future], you will indeed be with me in the future Paradise [of the Kingdom of God on earth].” Paradise is the restored garden of Eden in the renewed earth of the Kingdom which Jesus will bring at his second coming (Rev. 2:7). Jesus equated Paradise, which he promised the thief, with the Kingdom of God in which the thief requested a place.

Jesus did not go to heaven at death. No one in the Bible goes to heaven at death. Everyone goes to the grave, the world of the dead (Hades), to await the resurrection which will occur when Jesus comes back to establish his Kingdom. As I Corinthians 15:23 says so beautifully: “Those who belong to Christ will be resurrected at his coming.” Until then they remain in the grave (Hades), the residence of all the dead, including Jesus when he died, until they are called out of Hades as Jesus was three days after his death. Only Jesus has so far emerged from Hades into immortality. He did this on the third day, the day of his resurrection.

Now back to the “problem” of Luke 23:43, so often quoted as a supposed proof of an immediate presence of the soul in heaven, in contradiction to the plain statements that Jesus did not go to the Father the day he died.

In many New Testament Greek manuscripts the words are written without gaps and without punctuation. So Luke 23:43 would look like this: TRULYISAYTOYOUTODAYYOUWILLBEWITHMEINPARADISE.

Where shall we put the comma?

1) After “today” and read: “Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

2) After “to you” and read: “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

In some very early manuscripts of the Bible there is some indication of punctuation, as we shall explain.

We must investigate all the evidence before making up our minds on a biblical teaching. The Truth sets us free (John 8:32). Christians are those who believe what is true.

There are examples of the phrase “I say to you today…” elsewhere in the Bible. The phrase is used to convey solemn emphasis. In Deuteronomy 30:16, 18, 19 we read:

“I command you this day....”

“I declare to you this day....”

“I call heaven and earth to witness to you this day....”

And in the New Testament Acts 20:26 provides a parallel: “I solemnly witness to you this very day....”

Further examples will be found in Deut. 4:26, 39, 40; 6:6; 7:11; 8:1, 11, 19; 9:3; 10:13; 11:2, 8, 13, 26, 27, 28, 32; 13:18; 15:5; 19:9; 26:3, 16, 18; 27:1, 4, 10; 28:1, 13, 14, 15; 29:12; 30:2, 8, 11, 15, 16, 18, 19; 32:46.

Observe also Gen. 25:33: “Swear to me today…” Gen. 22:14: “that they might say today…” Gen. 41:9: “I today remember…” Deut. 9:6: “Today you will know…” Deut. 29:10: “Today you all stand…” Deut. 30:6: “I announce to you today….”

Detailed punctuation in the Bible has been added by translators and it can drastically affect the meaning of the text. ... It is only reasonable to repunctuate Luke 23:43 in a way which makes it harmonize with everything else the Bible says about death and Resurrection.

Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28, 29 remain as solemn testimonies to the fact that the dead are not in heaven, but that they rise from the ground or their tombs on the future great Resurrection day:

“Many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the ground shall arise…to everlasting life…”

“The hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice, those who have done good to a resurrection of life…”

Nothing should be allowed to disturb the central biblical doctrine of the future Resurrection of all the faithful from the sleep of death to life in the Kingdom of God. This stupendous event will occur when Jesus returns (1 Cor. 15:23).

Many of the Greek manuscripts of the Bible do not have punctuation. However, some very early manuscripts do have some marks of punctuation. In the Vatican Codex (4th century) there is evidence of a comma after the word “today.” And in the Curetonian version of the Syriac translation of Luke (5th century), we read “Amen, I say to you today, that with me you will be in the Garden of Eden.”

A German translation of the Bible, published in 1934 by Wilhelm Michaelis (Kroner Verlag, Leipzig) renders Luke 23:43 as follows: “Truly I give you my assurance today: You will one day be with me in Paradise.” The author adds this comment in a footnote: “Jesus does not wait until the last day, but promises the thief even now (‘today’ should probably be attached to the first part of the sentence) that his request will be granted. Paradise occurs in the NT only in 2 Cor. 12:4 and Rev. 2:7 and is the equivalent of everlasting life or Kingdom of God” (translation from the German mine). The Rotherham Bible (1895, reprinted in 1974) reads as follows: “Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise.” The official translation of the Roman Catholics, the Latin Vulgate, does not place a comma anywhere in this verse. It thus avoids the false impression that Jesus was in heaven on the day of his death.

The celebrated Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Vol. 5, p. 385, says: “Paradise, as used in Luke 23:43..., is evidently not heaven (John 20:17, Acts 2:31).” In other words John 20:17 and Acts 2:31 show that Jesus could not have gone to the Father in heaven on the day of his death. And similarly, no Christian goes immediately to heaven at death.

This fact has not prevented popular preaching of Luke 23:43 as a guarantee of “heaven at death” for the believer.

As with all “restorationist” movements our purpose is to alert our fellow Bible readers to the paganism which has crept into the faith. We cannot think that serious Christians will be satisfied with the status quo once they are informed of doctrines which masquerade as truth, however popular. Popular phrases such as “so and so has passed on, gone home, gone to be with Jesus in heaven” do not reflect the teaching of Jesus at all. They have more in common with spiritism and illicit raising of the dead and are condemned in Scripture as worthless and dangerous.

We ask only for a fair examination of the facts and there is a vast quantity of additional evidence available.

This article was taken from:
Fitting the Pieces Together into a Harmonious Whole